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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73959
06/28/06 07:45 PM
06/28/06 07:45 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Quote:
Darius: Asygo, Jesus spoke about finding roads; He did not reference which road you follow to the end. I think we forget that Jesus is the greatest intelligence in the universe. We miss His fine distinctions then try to impose our kindergarten interpretations on Him.
Assuming we can trust Matthew's reporting skills, Jesus said, Quote:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:14)
Obviously, if few find the road, few will get to its end. Unless there was a method, of which I am unaware, to reach the end of the road without first finding that road. If Jesus made such a distinction, I totally missed it.
But Jesus made a distinction between two kinds of resurrection: Quote:
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29)
If we're looking for distinctions in Christ's teachings, this is one of the big ones: There is life, and there is damnation. If we put the evidence together, we should see that if few find the road to life, most will end in damnation.
Yes, Jesus is the greatest intelligence there is, but He is also the kindest. When we come to Him as children to be taught, He explains Himself in ways understandable to us. Whoever accepts all that He says will leave the darkness and walk in the light as He is in the light.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73960
06/28/06 08:08 PM
06/28/06 08:08 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The road you follow to the end is Jesus Christ. He is the way, or road. Christ did specify this.
He that has the Son has life. He that has not the Son has not life.
It's not complicated, difficult, or arbitrary. Life can only be found in God.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73961
06/28/06 08:37 PM
06/28/06 08:37 PM
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And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73962
06/28/06 08:39 PM
06/28/06 08:39 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Amen, Bro Tom. He is the Way, and His promise is sure: Quote:
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)
If one fails to find Him, it is not because it is impossible. The problem is in the heart.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73963
06/28/06 08:50 PM
06/28/06 08:50 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Asygo, please read the passage without your theological filters. You are unintentionally changing the meaning of what Matthew reported. First, many go in at the broad gate. Second, few find the strait gate. There is a reason He did not say many find the broad gate. You don't have to find the broad gate because it is a gaping hole; you don't have to look for it. It is easy to go in. But the strait gate is different. It must be sought and if you seek you will find. That is all the passage addresses. You have gone further and superimposed on that passage the idea that once you enter the gate you are bound to remain on the road behind the gate. That cannot be found in the text. Nothing prevents those who have "fallen into" the broad gate from retracing their steps and seeking the strait gate. Nor are those who find the strait gate are so selfish that they won't call out to those who have "fallen into" the broad gate to join them in the strait gate. Whenever we allow our theology to color or interpretation the result is a false representation of the Creator and we end up doing the enemy's work. Stick to the text.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73964
06/28/06 09:34 PM
06/28/06 09:34 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Quote:
Asygo, please read the passage without your theological filters. You are unintentionally changing the meaning of what Matthew reported. First, many go in at the broad gate. Second, few find the strait gate. There is a reason He did not say many find the broad gate. You don't have to find the broad gate because it is a gaping hole; you don't have to look for it. It is easy to go in. But the strait gate is different. It must be sought and if you seek you will find. That is all the passage addresses.
Bro,
Based on your description above, we seem to be wearing the same "theological filters." Surprising, no?
Quote:
You have gone further and superimposed on that passage the idea that once you enter the gate you are bound to remain on the road behind the gate. That cannot be found in the text.
Really? Read the text I wrote (not what you think I wrote), and you will find that the idea you ascribe to me cannot be found in the text.
What is in my text is that unless one finds the road to life, damnation is certain.
Quote:
Stick to the text.
Sage advice, that also applies to the sage.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73965
06/28/06 09:53 PM
06/28/06 09:53 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
Sage advice, that also applies to the sage.
This is good. I think I'll steal it.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73966
06/28/06 09:56 PM
06/28/06 09:56 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Quote:
Mat 7:12 Treat others as you want them to treat you. This is what the Law and the Prophets are all about.
Mat 7:13 Go in through the narrow gate. The gate to destruction is wide, and the road that leads there is easy to follow. A lot of people go through that gate.
Mat 7:14 But the gate to life is very narrow. The road that leads there is so hard to follow that only a few people find it.
Mat 7:15 Watch out for false prophets! They dress up like sheep, but inside they are wolves who have come to attack you.
Mat 7:16 You can tell what they are by what they do. No one picks grapes or figs from thornbushes.
Mat 7:17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that produces bad fruit will be chopped down and burned.
Mat 7:20 You can tell who the false prophets are by their deeds.
Mat 7:21 Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my Father in heaven will get in.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73967
06/29/06 12:14 AM
06/29/06 12:14 AM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Asygo, I did not say you said it. I said you superimposed the idea on the text. That is the only way you could arrive at the conclusion you have that the text implies that there will be more in hell than in heaven. Being silent does not mean you have said nothing.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73968
06/29/06 12:29 AM
06/29/06 12:29 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Quote:
Mat 7:14 But the gate to life is very narrow. The road that leads there is so hard to follow that only a few people find it.
In light of that, I don't see the purpose of wrestling over the concept of universal "salvation." If one is saved, yet damned, what's the difference?
It would be much more fruitful to figure out how to find the road that leads to life, how each individual can receive God's gift - eternal life in Christ Jesus.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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