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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73979
06/29/06 03:30 AM
06/29/06 03:30 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
Mat 7:14 But the gate to life is very narrow. The road that leads there is so hard to follow that only a few people find it.
Boy, what an awful translation this is!! The road that leads to life is not hard to follow at all! It's the road to hell that's hard to follow!
Yet do not therefore conclude that the upward path is the hard and the downward road the easy way. All along the road that leads to death there are pains and penalties, there are sorrows and disappointments, there are warnings not to go on. God's love has made it hard for the heedless and headstrong to destroy themselves. (MB 139)
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matt. 11:28-30
Arnold, I'm not taking issue with what you're saying regarding Universalism, just with this awful translation.
The word translated "broad" is "euruchoros" which means "wide." It doesn't mean hard.
Anyone who is a Christian knows it's harder to live in harmony with God's will than to live in rebellion. As Jesus said to Paul, "It's hard to kick against the pricks." Also Proverbs, "The way of the transgressor is hard."
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73980
06/29/06 03:35 AM
06/29/06 03:35 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The broad road *is* hard to stay on, but unfortunately many demonstrate tenacious obstinance, and stay on it regardless of how much love God throws at them.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73981
06/29/06 03:37 AM
06/29/06 03:37 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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How should we summarize the theology being discussed here? Floating your boat to the end of the road?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73982
06/29/06 06:32 AM
06/29/06 06:32 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Quote:
Your entire thesis is based on the idea that one can only find the road; one cannot be led or directed to the road. That is not in the text.
Bro Darius,
If you're going to make claims about my thesis, at least find some text to support your claim. You're so busy reading between the lines that you totally miss what's on the line.
It is amazing how much you can misunderstand what I'm saying, while I'm available to clarify myself. It strains my imagination to think how much you could possibly misunderstand the Bible writers who are no longer around to explain themselves.
Quote:
Interestingly, you seem to apply endurance only to the narrow road. Why does it not apply to the broad road? Are you suggesting that once you get on the broad road you can never get off it but even though you get on the narrow road there is no guarantee you will stay on it? There is a logical flaw in that argument.
Indeed, you have found the fatal flaw in that argument. Men of straw in your general vicinity all quake in fear.
If you are ever inclined to find out, feel free to ask me what I mean. Do not trust what "seems" accurate to you, because it is obviously not trustworthy in this case.
Now, to answer your two questions:
- Why does it not apply to the broad road? It can.
- Are you suggesting that once you get on the broad road you can never get off it but even though you get on the narrow road there is no guarantee you will stay on it? No.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73983
06/29/06 06:33 AM
06/29/06 06:33 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Quote:
Arnold, I'm not taking issue with what you're saying regarding Universalism, just with this awful translation.
I know what you mean. I just copied/pasted from a previous post. I'm not sure what version it is.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73984
06/29/06 11:15 AM
06/29/06 11:15 AM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Asygo, I have found it unprofitable to hold a conversation with someone who says one thing then swears he did not say it. Such exchanges usually evoke the kind of insults you have tried to throw here. I have found that there are much better ways of wasting time.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73985
06/29/06 11:17 AM
06/29/06 11:17 AM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Quote:
The broad road *is* hard to stay on, but unfortunately many demonstrate tenacious obstinance, and stay on it regardless of how much love God throws at them.
That's a great theory. We have no certainty that it has happened because in spite of our claims to have divine knowledge we just do not know which among us is on either road.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73986
06/29/06 03:56 PM
06/29/06 03:56 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Quote:
Asygo, I have found it unprofitable to hold a conversation with someone who says one thing then swears he did not say it.
Your evidence to support that assertion is as comprehensive and compelling as your evidence to prove that "all have been saved."
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73987
06/29/06 04:12 PM
06/29/06 04:12 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Asygo, remember Galileo. Don't let his experience be in vain.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73988
06/29/06 05:18 PM
06/29/06 05:18 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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