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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73989
06/29/06 08:36 PM
06/29/06 08:36 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Quote:
Remember Aristotle too.
Of course, the church got in trouble with Galileo because it was selective in how it used Aristotle. We are stil suffering the results of that mess.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D. No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73990
06/29/06 09:15 PM
06/29/06 09:15 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Galileo formed his beliefs based on evidence. The church was dogmatic in its beliefs, regardless of the lack of evidence. Yes, some still suffer from that malady.
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73991
06/29/06 09:19 PM
06/29/06 09:19 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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The church still suffers from that malady and teaches its people to maintain the same approach of knowledge that supports it.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D. No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73992
06/29/06 10:29 PM
06/29/06 10:29 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
Galileo formed his beliefs based on evidence. The church was dogmatic in its beliefs, regardless of the lack of evidence. Yes, some still suffer from that malady.
Oh that it were just some!
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73993
06/30/06 09:00 AM
06/30/06 09:00 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Anyone care to retell the story about the church, aristotle and galileo?
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73994
07/03/06 07:48 PM
07/03/06 07:48 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Here's my ultra-quickie version:
The church believed the dogma that the universe revolved around the earth. Galileo, with the help of his new telescope, believed and taught that the earth was not the center of the universe. The church, in spite of their lack of non-metaphysical evidence, did not like that and forced him to recant.
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73995
07/03/06 08:16 PM
07/03/06 08:16 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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It's interesting that they had plotted the courses of the heavenly bodies assuming they revolved around the earth, which were extremely complicated. Making the assumption that they revolved around the sun made the orbits look a lot like circles, which had a certain elegant appeal to it. Occam's razor.
Theologically we do the same thing, often preferring long-winded complicated scenarios for reason of tradition and dogma, when much simpler explanations exist.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73996
07/05/06 10:39 PM
07/05/06 10:39 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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Bro Tom, I also noted some similarities, but a little different from yours.
- Galileo's church believed that it was very important for the earth to be at the center of everything - the universe revolved around humanity. This was supposedly based upon inspiration, but it was not.
- Today, there are many theories that place man at the center. We are, as they were, and as fallen Adam was, selfish. That fact casts its shadow upon our theology. But inspiration is clear that God is at the center. Period.
- The ancients assumed that orbits were circles, since that was the "perfect" way. But astronomy (as opposed to superstition) not only displaced the earth from the center of the universe, but it squished the orbits - closer inspection showed them to be ellipses. A few hundred years later, even the ellipses were discarded. Things are not always as simple as we would like.
- Like razors we use in the morning, Occam's Razor is good for cutting out unwanted stubble, but it could cut your neck if used too much. As Einstein supposedly said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler."
All else being equal, the simpler explanation is preferred. But when "all else" is not equal, we must sometimes discard the simple in favor of the complex. In my experience, tradition and dogma contribute both complex and simple explanations, where other options may be closer to reality. The trick is to use the razor wisely.
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73997
08/03/06 06:17 PM
08/03/06 06:17 PM
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There's nothing wrong with tradition as long as it doesn't conflict with the Scriptures.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73998
08/05/06 12:29 AM
08/05/06 12:29 AM
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By the same token there is nothing wrong with new things. Like new music, new fashions, new technology, new theology, etc. As long as it does not go against scripture lets not forego either traditions nor things modern.
If at first you don't succeed.....destroy all evidence you ever tried.
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