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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74095
05/07/06 02:33 AM
05/07/06 02:33 AM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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I have been listening to it all day I didnt go to church today and stayed home listening and studying the Bible. Very good and powerful sermons, I only caught part of 1 sermon where science was being discussed, specifically Mr.Hubble, the red shift, Orion etc etc. I am hoping it is played again, but overall very inspiring, and truthful. I learned a few things today from it. God Bless, Will
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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74096
05/11/06 01:55 AM
05/11/06 01:55 AM
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Thanks, bro. Daryl for the necessary correction. I have developed along the years of Internet debates and confrontation with people of other faiths, especially Protestants (both traditional and charismatic), as well as spiritists, Roman Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and even atheists, a series of Bible studies presented in a very didactic, clear and straightforward style, based mostly on 10 main points or reflexions, or questions for deepening the study of a great variety of doctrinal subjects, in the style of the study posted above. I have been translating this material into both English and Spanish to make them available to those who speak these languages in our midst and who care to reach out for helping those who are in error to acquire a better understanding of the God’s Word. These studies are intended for free distribution, so there is no monetary gain involved in the project. I would like to see if I could find volunteers to have them translated into French or other languages. I thought that since you are Canadians, and there are many people who are bilingual in Canada, mastering both English and French, I could find one, or even more than one, volunteer to offer me a helping hand to put them in French(it doesn’t have to be all at once)! Also people who master Portuguese and Spanish would be welcome. The material is mostly in Portuguese (my native language). The total number of these apologetic studies and short articles nears 100, covering the basic subjects of our beliefs--God's law, Sabbath/Sunday, conditional immortality , Bible dietary laws, 'Sola Scriptura'. I have a BA in Theology, got some training in both Greek and Hebrew, so the material is not something theologically “naïve” or amateurish, nor prepared by a “layman” who just have good will in explaining Bible points but with little theological grounds. I base my studies on sound theological research, in part by collecting data from scholars such as Samuele Bacchiocchi, the SDABC, and other SDA authors, including Ellen White, but not mostly from her writings due to the intention of reaching people outside our fold. Actually, even though the language and style are the easiest to understand, they are at the same time exegetically sound and simple to handle, besides being attractive in terms of layout. So, if you “qualify” according to the above description, please get in touch with me at one the following addresses: azenilto@yahoo.com; profazenilto@aol.com or profazenilto@hotmail.com.May God bless you all richly.
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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74097
05/11/06 02:08 AM
05/11/06 02:08 AM
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Let me add one more of my studies dealing with the subject of the law:
10 POINTS TO PONDER ON THE THEME OF GOD’S LAW AND THE SABBATH
1st. – God’s law is called “perfect” (Sal. 19:17), thus how could it be discarded as an inadequate “first law” to be replaced by a best one in the New Testament? Would God create an imperfect law for the Jews and a perfect one for the Christians?
2nd. – Jesus DIDN’T create a new, revolutionary code, in SUBTITUTION to the divine law of the Old Testament, since his “golden rule” is just a reiteration of what Moses had already said (compare Mat. 22:3-40 with Lev. 19:18 and Deu. 6:5). What He did was to highlight the deeper and ethical aspects of the law that had been lost sight of due to the bad instruction His hearers had got from the religious leaders of the Jewish nation. After all, it was always wrong to look at a woman with impure intentions (see Job 31:1) as well as to hate a neighbor (Lev. 19:17).
3rd. – A proof of that is what we read in Matthew 5:20—the key to understand Christ’s statements in His famous antithesis, “ye have heard that it was said by them of old time. . . But I say unto you. . .”: “Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven”.
4th. – Another proof that Christ didn’t intend to REPLACE the principles of the law, besides His statements in Matthew 5:17, 18 that He hadn’t come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, is that what He says in these verses is accompanied by His RECOMMENDATIONS regarding the most perfect obedience, taking into account the minimal details of such law (see vs. 19).
5th. – Also in Matthew 23:1-3 Jesus recommends to His hearers that they accept ALL that their religious leaders taught (not what they practiced). And one of the things they taught, even though corrupting the meaning of the commandment, was the faithful observance of the seventh-day Sabbath: Luke 13:14.
6th. – The expressions used by Paul of “law of the spirit of life” and “law of sin and death” don’t mean different laws, but different visions on the law. He employs the word “law” in Romans 7:25 as a “play on words”, for he is speaking on the operation of sin as a “law”, while significantly he also states: “I myself serve the law of God”. That would make no sense in case he understood that this law was annulled. But he also declared: “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law” (Rom. 3:31).
7th. – Jesus Christ stated that “the Sabbath was made because of man, and not man because of the Sabbath” (Mar. 2:27). In that statement He confirms the universal character of the Sabbath and REINFORCES the need to keep the Sabbath commandment, which is, above all, a privilege of God’s children, while He condemned the distortions to the commandment practiced by the religious leaders of His time. Christ’s debates on the Sabbath didn’t have the objective of teaching that it was an abolished commandment to be no more obeyed (for that would be in opposition to His own words in Matthew 5:19), rather He showed the CORRECT spirit by which the Sabbath should be kept. 8th. – On the question of the “division of the laws” as “moral”, “ceremonial”, “civil”, etc., we find the words of Paul in 1 Cor. 7:19, where he speaks that “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God”. In that we see how he himself makes a “division” of the laws that were important, but are no more so, and commandments that must be fulfilled by God’s people.
9th. – Christian leaders along history always defined God’s law on this basis: as moral law (the Ten Commandments), ceremonial, civil laws, etc. The historic confessions of faith, creeds and catechisms of Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Congregationalists, and even Roman Catholics, allow anyone to realize it. 10th. – Finally, there is the question of the change of Old Covenant for the New Covenant: There isn’t the least hint that in this process, as God writes His laws on the hearts and minds of those who accept the terms of this New Covenant (New Testament), He
a) leaves out the 4th commandment (of the Bible’s Decalogue, not of the falsified one in the Roman Catholic catechisms) b) includes the 4th commandment, but changing the day of observance from the seventh-day Sabbath to the first day of the week (Sunday)
OR
c) includes the 4h commandment, but as a vague, voluntary and variable principle, that can be fulfilled or not, or adopted according to the most convenient time for the believer (or his/her employer). Basic Texts: Hebrews 8:6-10; Jeremiah 31:31-33 y Ezekiel 36:26 y 27. – By Prof. Azenilto G. Brito.
__________
P.S.: In a certain Forum a Roman-Catholic said that my last question is IMPOSSIBLE to be answered only through the Bible.
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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74098
05/11/06 01:31 PM
05/11/06 01:31 PM
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Oh, I noticed that bro. Daryl only added the English version for my Portugese phrase that I missed to change, in the study on the 10 commandments, a few squares above. He should have eliminated totally the Portuguese words, replacing them for the English.
Thanks
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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74099
05/16/06 02:17 AM
05/16/06 02:17 AM
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Charter Member Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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I think, it would be interesting to share this with our fellow christians in: ******************** I have some shares as well there. In His love JS ======== As we do not make it a habit of directing members and guests of MSDAOL to topics in other forums outside of MSDAOL, SDA or otherwise, the URL has been removed. - Daryl
Last edited by Daryl Fawcett; 05/16/06 07:24 PM.
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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74100
05/16/06 07:20 PM
05/16/06 07:20 PM
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Anonymous Poster:
If you are the same person I think you are, then you are a registered member of MSDAOL, therefore, you should be able to log on.
If you have forgotten your password, and your email address has changed from what you have shown in your membership profile, please let me know.
The software has sent your username and password to the email address in your membership profile.
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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74101
06/17/06 02:13 AM
06/17/06 02:13 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,009
Ohio
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One of the more interesting things to me is how many Christians say that the Ten Commandments, as well as all other Biblical laws, are slavery. I have a big problem with this because of three texts: Quote:
Your (The Lor's) righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Your law is truth.” Psalms 119:142 NKJV
Quote:
The law of truth was in his (Levi's) mouth, and injustice was not found on his lips. He walked with Me in peace and equity, And turned many away” Malachi 2:6 NKJV
Quote:
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” John 8:32 NCV
So I guess I can't understand how a law of truth (a law that sets us free) is slavery.
Oh Happy Day!
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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74102
06/17/06 10:21 PM
06/17/06 10:21 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74103
06/17/06 10:49 PM
06/17/06 10:49 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,009
Ohio
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Yes, I know that is the text that people use to support that claim, but it is not used right. I have an entire sermon about this. The laws that pertain to ordinances have no use, so to continue to do them is to make one a slave, but the moral laws actually make us free. Can you dispute this? Take the sixth commandment (you mustn’t murder). We are set free from the threat of murder because the law says we shouldn’t do it.
Is it your position that the Ten Commandments make us slaves? If so, how do you reconcile that God’s law is a law of truth and the truth sets us free?
Oh Happy Day!
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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished?
#74104
06/18/06 12:02 AM
06/18/06 12:02 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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I think Paul did in one or other letter refer to a christian having left the service of sin to enter the service of God. Couldnt find it now though.
I just tried to point out that the idea of the laws as slavery isnt taken out of thin air. If the ten commandments are included in "Sinai" I dont know, maybe not.
I think the Ten C could make us slaves, or rather, we could enslave ourselves with them.
Then you have instance:
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
About the sixth commandment, remember how Jesus thaught it. No longer is it enough not to murder someone, after Jesus you also musnt hate someone or plot his/hers death as hating or ploting is now equal to the actual killing. Do you think there might be simmilar "new" dept to all of the Ten, even those which Jesus didnt specificly enlargen?
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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