1.Satan was defeated at the cross. Satan knows he had been defeated. Do you disagree?

2.I produced a quote saying that God doesn't ask us to believe anything without providing evidence for that belief. Did you notice it? (I underlined and bolded the salient parts to help.) That would contradict what you're suggesting, that we can only know that Nahum 1:9 is true becaues "God says so," wouldn't it? (not to mention the fact that we are explicity told precisely why sin won't arise again).

1. Yes, Jesus' victory on the cross guarantees Satan's eventual punishment and death in the lake of fire. But Satan is insane. He knows his doom is impending, and yet he believes he will eventually defeat Jesus.

2. I believe what God says about the future of eternity because He says so – not because I know so. I have every reason to take God at His word, and no reason not to.

Dratted thing nuked my post again.

1. Yes, Jesus' victory on the cross guarantees Satan's eventual punishment and death in the lake of fire. But Satan is insane. He knows his doom is impending, and yet he believes he will eventually defeat Jesus.

The issue was never if God could cast Satan in a lake of fire. He could have done this anytime He wished. The cross has nothing to do with this. As you like to point out so frequently, Christ did not die in a lake of fire.

Christ defeated Satan at the cross because He put the lie so Satan's claims. Do you agree with this?

2. I believe what God says about the future of eternity because He says so – not because I know so. I have every reason to take God at His word, and no reason not to.

I posted this:

God never asks us to believe, without giving sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith. His existence, His character, the truthfulness of His word, are all established by testimony that appeals to our reason; and this testimony is abundant. Yet God has never removed the possibility of doubt. Our faith must rest upon evidence, not demonstration. Those who wish to doubt will have opportunity; while those who really desire to know the truth will find plenty of evidence on which to rest their faith. Steps to Christ 105

I underlined that part that says God never asked us to believe without giving sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith. I haven't seen anything in your responses which indicates in any way that you have read this.

Assuming you are taking note of this statement, my follow up question is do you not see (I guess it's obvious that you don't) that to insist that something is so because "God says so" and for no other reason is diametrically opposed to the idea that God does not ask us to believe something without giving us sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith?

Not to mention that fact that God has often explicitly told us exactly why sin will not arise again, and in none of these times did He ever say, "Because I said so."

TE: Christ defeated Satan at the cross because He put the lie so Satan's claims. Do you agree with this?

MM: Please reword this question. Thank you.

TE: I haven't seen anything in your responses which indicates in any way that you have read this.

MM: Yes, Jesus has given us plenty of evidence He is trustworthy. My faith in His predictions is not blind. He tells us sin will not arise again. Yes, there are good reasons why FMAs will never choose to sin in the future. But since the future hasn’t happened yet I can only take Jesus at His word. I believe Him when He says no one will ever choose to sin again.

I'll split question 1 into three parts. At the cross, the battle was won. Satan knew he was defeated.

Second part, the way the battle was won was be revealing the truth; the truth about Satan, the truth about God and His love; the truth about the principles of their respective governments.

This part, the universe was forever secured by the cross.

Regarding the second thing, the point I've been making is that God does not ask us to believe anything without providing us sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith. He doesn't provide overwhelming evidence, to remove all doubt, but He provides enough evidence. He never asks us to believe things for arbitrary reasons. Instead our belief is to be based on reason, on the basis of evidence.

To believe something, anything, whether it's Nahum 1:9 or any other text "because God says so" is to act contrary to how the Lord would have us act. He doesn't want us to believe because He said so. He wants us to believe because *we* believe so, by using our reason, on the basis of evidence.

Here's another quote which illustrates this principle:

He (Jesus) maintained his disguise till he had interpreted the Scriptures, and had led them to an intelligent faith in his life, his character, his mission to earth, and his death and resurrection. He wished the truth to take firm root in their minds, not because it was supported by his personal testimony, but because the typical law, and the prophets of the Old Testament, agreeing with the facts of his life and death, presented unquestionable evidence of that truth. (5BC 1125)

John, I both agree and disagree with what you are saying.

I think what I said was clear, not poorly stated. However, I like your clarification very much! Especially I liked this clarification:

Therefore we cannot “know” what it is that he is saying when we do not understand and realize what he is saying. It stands then that the “so” in “God says so” has to be our concept of it. Since one is not understanding what God is saying, the “so” means an imposition of our thoughts upon his words.

You cannot say “I know” because they said so, when you do not understand what they are saying.

Excellent!!!

We are actually making two different points, both of which are valid. My point was that God does not wish us to believe Him on the basis of His autority alone. He wants us to understand what we believe; to have an intelligent, understanding faith.

Your point, an excellent one (wish I had thought to make it), is that without understanding, we are not believing at all. So it's not simply that God doesn't want us to believe on the basis of His authority alone, but that we *cannot* believe on the basis of His authority alone, because belief without understanding is not belief at all.

I my self think that the reason sin would not raise again in heaven and the New World because of our new status, a saint with an agape heart.

We could only sin when we follow our own desire; in this world, our desire is motivated by selfishness, which is sin.

In heaven and the New World, we could not sin because we have no longer a selfish heart for all of the saints have agape hearts with a memory of Christ redemption to save them from their sins, which means we knew that we would die instantly the time we sinned.

In His love

James S

I liked what you wrote James, up to this point: "which means we knew that we would die instantly the time we sinned." This betrays a motivation of selfishness, which is not agape.

Agape doesn't seek its own interests (1 Cor. 13:5).

Also an item missing from your post is including the very important element that the reason sin will not arise again is because the issues of the Great Controversy have been settled. God has been seen to be completely trustworth, and the principles of His government to be right and true.

However, I liked this part very much.

the saints have agape hearts with a memory of Christ redemption to save them from their sins.

Excellent!