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JUSTIFICATION #74643
06/04/06 05:55 AM
06/04/06 05:55 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
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Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
It is almost 2 years ago that Tom E. has brought this topic and it became a very long topic, which I hadn’t finish reading but seems to me that the discussions was going more on what caused death rather than justification it self.

So, it is still not clear to me and I need to know in simple and clear word what justification is?

I do not want to share a wrong view to people through my book, so, help me to identify what “justification” really is.

Surely, I have my own opinion what justification is, but I'm affraid it does not suit the SDA's view.

In His love

James S.

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74644
06/04/06 01:03 PM
06/04/06 01:03 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Justification is what Jesus does for us in heaven. On the cross He earned the legal right to pardon past sins confessed and forsaken and to cover unknown sins with His blood and righteousness. This ministry is available to everyone who accepts Jesus as their personal Saviour. He will not justify anyone who willingly continues to practice known sins. We are justified in the outer court of the heavenly sanctuary (i.e., earth).

Sanctification, on the other hand, is what Jesus does in and through us on earth. On the cross He earned the legal right to empower justified sinners to live without committing known sins. So long as we are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, so long as we are abiding in Jesus, so long as we are partaking of the divine nature – we do not and cannot commit known sins. We are sanctified in the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary.

Glorification is what Jesus does to us in heaven and then on earth when He returns in the clouds of glory. On the cross He earned the legal right to restore sanctified sinners to Adam and Eve’s original sinless condition. In heaven Jesus will blot out our record and memory of specific sins. When He returns to earth He will give us a new body and nature. Our memory, if we are among the living, will be glorified in the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary just before human probation closes. And our body and nature will be glorified when Jesus arrives.

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74645
06/04/06 03:49 PM
06/04/06 03:49 PM
C
Colin  Offline
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Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
Quote:

Justification is what Jesus does for us in heaven.

Sanctification, on the other hand, is what Jesus does in and through us on earth.


NO, NO, NO: Justification by faith is also done in us, as regeneration, not just forgiving our past.

MM has left justification where it should not be left, namely, as something purely legal and external to our spiritual experience; while sanctification according to his position is supposed to include all the internal spiritual experience we enjoy in the Spirit.

I'm glad MM lets sanctification be completed in us, producing perfected characters, since the last time this topic was debated by the GC the challenge was whether sanctification had any part in righteousness by faith...! That debate was in 1976, at Palmdale in California, with the Australian Brethern having the dispute settled with the GC Brethern.

The conclusion published in the Review and Herald (as it was then) opened with: "'Righteousness by faith' is the experience of justification." Justification is an internal experience of the renewed mind and the new creation, though the Australians refused to accept that position, claiming justification was purely legal, as MM has described in his post.

Jesus is personally the world's justification since his merits are the source of man's redemption from sinfulness, and those merits were perfected and complete in his death.
Righteousness, that is justification, happens in us when we receive them into ourselves by his Spirit: He is our justification as the world's Redeemer and justification by faith is being born again.

Sanctification is merely getting used to the whole experience of justification by faith.

Just had to clear that up: justification has an internal, experiential meaning and application.

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74646
06/04/06 09:02 PM
06/04/06 09:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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“Justification by faith is to many a mystery. A sinner is justified by God when he repents of his sins.” (OHC 52) Justification is what Jesus accomplishes for us in heaven. It accommodates past sins pardoned and sins of ignorance. Jesus cannot justify or forgive us if we refuse to confess and forsake known sin. One sin cherished completely cancels the privileges of justification.

“No one can believe with the heart unto righteousness, and obtain justification by faith, while continuing the practice of those things which the Word of God forbids, or while neglecting any known duty.” (1 SM 396) We are justified when we are born again. “Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification.” (7 BC 908)

“God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul.” (FW 100)

“Genuine faith will be manifested in good works; for good works are the fruits of faith. As God works in the heart, and man surrenders his will to God, and cooperates with God, he works out in the life what God works in by the Holy Spirit, and there is harmony between the purpose of the heart and the practice of the life. Every sin must be renounced as the hateful thing that crucified the Lord of life and glory, and the believer must have a progressive experience by continually doing the works of Christ. It is by continual surrender of the will, by continual obedience, that the blessing of justification is retained.” (1SM 397)

“The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven.” (FLB 116)

Sanctification is what Jesus accomplishes in and through us on earth. It has nothing to do with sinning and repenting and forgiveness (justification accommodates these aspects of salvation). Sanctification is the process of growing intellectually and maturing morally.

We are born again fully justified and sanctified. We obtain justification by faith, and we maintain it through faith that works by love and purifies the soul. Although we are justified and sanctified the moment we are born again, the actual process of sanctification continues throughout eternity.

“Sanctification is the result of lifelong obedience.” (AA 560) “Sanctification is the work of a lifetime.” (COL 65) Eternity isn’t long enough to exhaust our potential to become more like Jesus. This “work of progression will not cease, but will continue throughout eternity.” (HP 186) “‘The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.’ Through obedience comes sanctification of body, soul, and spirit. This sanctification is a progressive work, and an advance from one stage of perfection to another.” (ML 250)

“Sanctification is a state of holiness, without and within, being holy and without reserve the Lord’s, not in form, but in truth. Every impurity of thought, every lustful passion, separates the soul from God; for Christ can never put His robe of righteousness upon a sinner, to hide his deformity. . . . There must be a progressive work of triumph over evil, of sympathy with good, a reflection of the character of Jesus. We must walk in the light, which will increase and grow brighter unto the perfect day. This is real, substantial growth, which will finally attain to the full stature of men and women in Jesus Christ.” (OHC 214)

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74647
06/05/06 04:16 AM
06/05/06 04:16 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Justification is reconciliation, bringing us back into harmony with God.

Quote:

For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.(1 Pet. 3:18)




To bring us to God is the work of Christ.

Here's something from Paul:

Quote:

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! (Rom. 5:9, 10)




Paul uses justificaiton and reconciliation interchangeably. Reconcilation is a very easy word to understand; to bring to parties which were at odds together.

Paul presents the same theme again in Colossians:

Quote:

19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. (Col. 1:19-21)




We used to be enemies of God, alianated in our minds, but by the cross, God has made peace. Here Paul presents the same theme, this time using the word "justified" instead of "reconciled":

Quote:

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:1).




I hope this is helpful James. You might wish to read the Ty Gibson quotes I provided, as you might find them helpful. Also the book "Christ and His Righteousness" is very helpful, which is available on line in at least three different places. If you google "Waggoner Christ and His Rightouesness" you will find it. I highly recommend it.

Tom


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: JUSTIFICATION #74648
06/05/06 04:23 AM
06/05/06 04:23 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:

Sanctification is merely getting used to the whole experience of justification by faith.




This is a nice way of putting it! Sanctification, just like justification, is by faith.

Your point that justification involves regeneration and is an internal experience is well taken, Colin. Waggoner emphasized that in great detail. So does Ellen White, for that matter.

For example:

Quote:

How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. (DA 175, 176)




This is describing the process of justification by faith. She brings out that it involves a new life in the soul, thoughts and desires being brought into obedience to the will of Christ, the law being written in the heart. All of these things are internal to the believer.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: JUSTIFICATION #74649
06/05/06 12:18 PM
06/05/06 12:18 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
“Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification.” (7 BC 908)

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74650
06/06/06 09:29 AM
06/06/06 09:29 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
What is Justification as according to SDA belief/doctrine?

In His love

James S

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74651
06/06/06 11:55 AM
06/06/06 11:55 AM
C
Colin  Offline
Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
"Justification" has no chapter in our doctrinal book - a glaring omission as I've heard it described to me by a thoughtful, retired pastor. There is a debate whether it is external to us or internal to us: our legal standing in Christ before God or experiential righteousness of the renewed mind in us - or both. It is both, with righteous experience based on our legal position (by grace) in Christ: you just won't find it in a formal document. It appears to be politically incorrect to include both our legal basis of- and our faith experience in righteousness.

As I remeber it, the formal definition is that justification places the believing sinner in a right relationship with God - a status of acquittal and forgiveness: a legal, saved position.

This is inadequate as a definition, since it omits the experience of regeneration which is clearly mentioned in our published writings which present our original beliefs.

SOP has the sentence, "Justificaiton is both pardon and regeneration." Hope that helps.

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74652
06/06/06 01:08 PM
06/06/06 01:08 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
This is from Fundamental Beliefs:


10. Experience of Salvation:
In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)


This doesn't mention anything about legal status. It looks like it is using "justified" as synonomous with "set right" or "reconciled."

E. J. Waggoner probably wrote on the subject as clearly as any SDA. Here's something he wrote:


Notice in the above account that the taking away of the filthy garments is the same as causing the iniquity to pass from the person. And so we find that when Christ covers us with the robe of His own righteousness, He does not furnish a cloak for sin but takes the sin away. And this shows that the forgiveness of sins is something more than a mere form, something more than a mere entry in the books of record in heaven, to the effect that the sin has been cancelled. The forgiveness of sins is a reality; it is something tangible, something that vitally affects the individual. It actually clears him from guilt, and if he is cleared from guilt, is justified, made righteous, he has certainly undergone a radical change. He is, indeed, another person, for he obtained this righteousness for the remission of sins, in Christ. It was obtained only by putting on Christ. But "if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature." 2 Cor. 5:17. And so the full and free forgiveness of sins carries with it that wonderful and miraculous change known as the new birth, for a man cannot become a new creature except by a new birth. This is the same as having a new, or a clean, heart.

The new heart is a heart that loves righteousness and hates sin. It is a heart of willingness to be led into the paths of righteousness. It is such a heart as the Lord wished Israel to have when he said, "O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children forever!" Deut. 5:29. In short, it is a heart free from the love of sin as well as from the guilt of sin. But what makes a man sincerely desire the forgiveness of his sins? It is simply his hatred of them and his desire for righteousness, which hatred and desire have been enkindled by the Holy Spirit.


Waggoner refers to justification as being "made righteous," a "radical change." He refers to a change of heart. I don't think he ever spoke or wrote on the subject of justification without emphasizing these points: that it, that justification is a change of heart.

Ellen White also emphaisized this point.

Within SDA theology, the idea the justification is primarily or only external is a recent thought within Adventism, perhaps beginning in the 70's through Paxton, Brinsmead and Ford.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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