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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74663
06/09/06 12:19 PM
06/09/06 12:19 PM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote.
James, please compare the quotes I've posted on this thread with your last post and I think you will agree that the conclusions you just posted are confirmed.
Unquote.
Yes M.M, I have seen that what I posted conforms to your view, but as I said, this is not “my view” it is from some one else that I just posted here. I have my own view regarding justification, which till now I didn’t see is posted here.
I will wait a little bit more and then posted my view, to ask the forum opinions, for this has been with me a long time and I still think it is Okkay.
So, I would post first the view of some one else regarding the Final Justification.
In His love
James S
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74664
06/09/06 01:19 PM
06/09/06 01:19 PM
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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The Final Justification:
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Romans 2:13
When will this be? In the great judgment day.
Happy Sabbath.
In His love
James S
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74665
06/09/06 01:24 PM
06/09/06 01:24 PM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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The first one justifies the ungodly
The second justifies the godly
The first one is without the deeds of the law
The second for those who keep the law
The first comes at the beginning of our Christian experience
The second comes at the end of life's journey here below
The first saves us from sin in this world
The second saves us from this worls
The first admits us into the family of God in the church
The second admits us into the family of God above.
This is justification as according to some one, posted here long time ago. Whether he is the author or just quote it from some one else I don't know.
In His love
James S
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74666
06/09/06 03:01 PM
06/09/06 03:01 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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One cannot be reconciled to God without being reconciled to His holy law, because the law is a transcript of His character. So the second justification, as you are referring to it, is simply evidence that justification (reconciliation) has taken place.
Actually there's a bigger issue at stake, which has to do with the justification of God (the third justification?).
For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:
“ That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.”
(Romans 3:3, 4)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74667
06/09/06 10:16 PM
06/09/06 10:16 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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James Quote:
Rom 3:10 The Scriptures tell us, "No one is acceptable to God!
Rom 3:11 Not one of them understands or even searches for God.
Rom 3:12 They have all turned away and are worthless. There isn't one person who does right.
Rom 3:13 Their words are like an open pit, and their tongues are good only for telling lies. Each word is as deadly as the fangs of a snake,
Rom 3:14 and they say nothing but bitter curses.
Rom 3:15 These people quickly become violent.
Rom 3:16 Wherever they go, they leave ruin and destruction.
Rom 3:17 They don't know how to live in peace.
Rom 3:18 They don't even fear God."
Rom 3:19 We know that everything in the Law was written for those who are under its power. The Law says these things to stop anyone from making excuses and to let God show that the whole world is guilty.
Rom 3:20 God doesn't accept people simply because they obey the Law. No, indeed! All the Law does is to point out our sin.
Rom 3:21 Now we see how God does make us acceptable to him. The Law and the Prophets tell how we become acceptable, and it isn't by obeying the Law of Moses.
Tom
Quote:
Rom 3:22 God treats everyone alike. He accepts people only because they have faith in Jesus Christ.
Rom 3:23 All of us have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.
Rom 3:24 But God treats us much better than we deserve, and because of Christ Jesus, he freely accepts us and sets us free from our sins.
Rom 3:25 God sent Christ to be our sacrifice. Christ offered his life's blood, so that by faith in him we could come to God. And God did this to show that in the past he was right to be patient and forgive sinners. This also shows that God is right when he accepts people who have faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:26 (SEE 3:25)
Rom 3:27 What is left for us to brag about? Not a thing! Is it because we obeyed some law? No! It is because of faith.
Rom 3:28 We see that people are acceptable to God because they have faith, and not because they obey the Law.
Rom 3:29 Does God belong only to the Jews? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, he is!
Rom 3:30 There is only one God, and he accepts Gentiles as well as Jews, simply because of their faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we destroy the Law by our faith? Not at all! We make it even more powerful.
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74668
06/09/06 10:42 PM
06/09/06 10:42 PM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Quote:
Really?
But I am still not satisfied with your view regarding justification, it lack something I need.
How do we get justified? Is it through law obedience? Is it through God's grace? Is it through faith? Or is it through all of them or a combination of it?
Is justification a gift, is it something we must strive, or combination of it?
In His love
James S
Justification is the mind renewed spiritually with the faith of Jesus and is the gift of grace: this is grace through faith. Justification pardons and pardoning by God is making righteous.
Forgiveness is an experience of righteousness, from God and in ourselves: Protestantism holds that justification is done for us, but Adventism began by affirming and should still affirm that justification is done in us, renewing us for doing righteousness. That famous sentence can be written: he who through faith is righteous shall live.
Obedience to the law is the exercise of justification and is the experience of being saved, not the result of having been saved. Righteousness by faith is the experience of justification. We don't strive to get justified, nor do we strive to keep it: the choice to be justified is the only difficult part - once chosen, it is an easy spiritual choice to remain so, by the power of the Spirit. It is only difficult should we attempt to choose in our own strength.
Justification is the both pardon for our past and the new mind created in us for following Christ's leading in the present. By grace, through faith, for obedience...
Sanctification is only repeated practice of our justified minds, so that obedience by faith is part of salvation: being saved from sinning. Christ himself is our assurance, not what he does with us, but just who and what he is: since he is glorified, he is our assurance as the world's redeemer.
I'd better stop there.
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74669
06/09/06 10:54 PM
06/09/06 10:54 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Of course you know that's a paraphrase, Thomas. I like what you posted quite well. I agree with almost all of it, just a small quibble here or there, but I'll let that go (unless you want to discuss it). I particularly liked vss. 25-27, and especially 25.
I have a paraphrase I'd like to post a bit later. I hope I remember.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74670
06/09/06 11:02 PM
06/09/06 11:02 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Tom
If you prefer another translation, please use my quote only as an reference to which verses I intended. Id prefered to have quoted in my swedish version but you wouldnt bennefit from that, so I choose one that I could read and understand and had aviable on the bible program.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74671
06/09/06 11:05 PM
06/09/06 11:05 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I agree with Colin's thoughts. I'm going to rephrase them in less theological language. Hopefully Colin will agree with me in my rephrasing.
Justification is the mind renewed spiritually with the faith of Jesus and is the gift of grace: this is grace through faith. Justification pardons and pardoning by God is making righteous.
God reconciles us by renewing our minds, which is reveal things to us that we didn't know. Before we were alienate and enemies in our minds, but after believing we have been brought into harmony with God.
Forgiveness is an experience of righteousness, from God and in ourselves: Protestantism holds that justification is done for us, but Adventism began by affirming and should still affirm that justification is done in us, renewing us for doing righteousness. That famous sentence can be written: he who through faith is righteous shall live.
Obedience to the law is the exercise of justification and is the experience of being saved, not the result of having been saved. Righteousness by faith is the experience of justification. We don't strive to get justified, nor do we strive to keep it: the choice to be justified is the only difficult part - once chosen, it is an easy spiritual choice to remain so, by the power of the Spirit. It is only difficult should we attempt to choose in our own strength.
We cannot be reconciled to God without simultaneously being reconciled to His holy law. Obedience to God's law is the experience of reconciliation, because being in harmony with Him is being in harmony with His law, which is the transcript of His character.
We don't strive to be reconciled, nor do we strive to stay such. We continue being at peace with God by the same way we became at peace with God in the first place, which is by believing the Good News.
Justification is the both pardon for our past and the new mind created in us for following Christ's leading in the present. By grace, through faith, for obedience...
The reconciliation we receive through faith not only heals us from our past sins, but enables us to live in harmony with God, which also means living in harmony with the principles expressed in His law, the transcript of His character.
Sanctification is only repeated practice of our justified minds, so that obedience by faith is part of salvation: being saved from sinning. Christ himself is our assurance, not what he does with us, but just who and what he is: since he is glorified, he is our assurance as the world's redeemer.
Christ revealed God to us that we might be set right and kept right with Him. Being set right is justification (or reconciliation). Being kept right is sanctification. Both justification and sanctification are by faith alone in Jesus Christ.
I'm thinking you'll be in harmony with this Colin. Am I right?
I think you said things well, so my paraphrase is not meant to be critical in any way. It's just that many people are not inclined to use theological terms (which weren't theological in the original language), and also the terms "justification" and "sanctification" tend to have pretty vague meanings for many.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74672
06/10/06 12:31 AM
06/10/06 12:31 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Quote:
“Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification.” (7 BC 908)
This insight shows how justification and sanctification compliment one another and how they are separate and distinct aspects of salvation. They are not one and the same thing.
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