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Re: JUSTIFICATION #74693
07/05/06 03:04 PM
07/05/06 03:04 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Right! Justification isn't about sinners obeying the law on their own behalf. It's about Jesus obeying it on their behalf, about Him pardoning their confessed and forsaken sins. Sanctification, on the other hand, is all about obeying the law - which is also what maintains the blessings of justification.

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74694
07/05/06 07:07 PM
07/05/06 07:07 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
The blessings of justification are maintained by obeying the law? So justification is originally a free gift, totally of grace, received by faith, but the maintenance of it is not?

Or is the obeying of the law simply the fruit of justification?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: JUSTIFICATION #74695
07/05/06 07:09 PM
07/05/06 07:09 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:

If judgment is subject to the deeds of the law, only sincere loving SDA’s is justified.




James, you wrote the above, which I asked you to explain. In your explanation you appear to be disagreeing with what you yourself wrote. Am I understanding you correctly?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: JUSTIFICATION #74696
07/06/06 05:16 PM
07/06/06 05:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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TE: The blessings of justification are maintained by obeying the law? So justification is originally a free gift, totally of grace, received by faith, but the maintenance of it is not? Or is the obeying of the law simply the fruit of justification?

MM: Tom, the following passages teach that justification and sanctification, though closely related, are two separate aspects of salvation. The first is by faith and the second is through faith.

FW 100
God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul. {FW 100.1}

7BC 908
Justification means the saving of a soul from perdition, that he may obtain sanctification, and through sanctification, the life of heaven. Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification (MS 113, 1902). {7BC 908.15}

3SM 191
When through repentance and faith we accept Christ as our Saviour, the Lord pardons our sins, and remits the penalty prescribed for the transgression of the law. The sinner then stands before God as a just person; he is taken into favor with Heaven, and through the Spirit has fellowship with the Father and the Son. {3SM 191.2}

Then there is yet another work to be accomplished, and this is of a progressive nature. The soul is to be sanctified through the truth. And this also is accomplished through faith. For it is only the grace of Christ, which we receive through faith, that the character can be transformed. {3SM 191.3}

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74697
07/06/06 05:57 PM
07/06/06 05:57 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, the statements you quoted agree with what I have stated, which is that sanctification is by faith, just like justification.

"Then there is yet another work to be accomplished, and this is of a progressive nature. The soul is to be sanctified through the truth. And this also is accomplished through faith. For it is only the grace of Christ, which we receive through faith, that the character can be transformed. {3SM 191.3}"


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: JUSTIFICATION #74698
07/07/06 12:43 AM
07/07/06 12:43 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The point is that justification is retained (maintained) through faith that works by love and purifies the soul. Do you agree?

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74699
07/07/06 03:14 AM
07/07/06 03:14 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Yes. Justification and sanctification both are by faith alone in Jesus Christ, which works by love and purifies the soul.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: JUSTIFICATION #74700
07/09/06 03:05 AM
07/09/06 03:05 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Quote.
James, you wrote the above, which I asked you to explain. In your explanation you appear to be disagreeing with what you yourself wrote. Am I understanding you correctly?
Unquote.

Yes, I disagree if Justification is by faith with the deeds of the law taken into account. I agree with you and M.M. that justification is by faith depending completely on the grace of God, which means God would not taken into account the deeds of the law. If he takes into account, only sincere loving Sabbath keepers is justified, and I don’t believe that, because I believe the saints when Jesus return would consist of many people of many denominations, non Sabbath keepers, unclean meat eaters, those who don’t believe Christ because never hear about him, etc.

In His love

James S

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74701
07/09/06 05:00 PM
07/09/06 05:00 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Again, we obtain justification by faith, but we must retain it through faith that works by love and purifies the soul. Faith is required to obtain pardon, and good works are required to retain it.

Re: JUSTIFICATION #74702
07/10/06 02:21 AM
07/10/06 02:21 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Oh, I misunderstood you James. I do think sincere loving SDA's will be justified (you actually wrote "SDA's" first, not "Sabbath-keepers"), but I believe sincere loving Hindus, and Budhhists and whatever will be as well (where "sincere" means responding to whatever truth God has revealed to the given person).


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Page 6 of 18 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 17 18

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