TE: MM, you are saying that Jesus was bound by His word to punish Adam and Eve, to destroy them, and yet He didn't do it.

MM: Yes.

TE: So Jesus, according to you, did something different than what He promised to do.

MM: Yes.

TE: Also, where did Jesus say He would destroy Adam and Eve if they disobeyed Him?

MM: Genesis 2:17 – “for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

AG 131
After the transgression of Adam the principles of the law were . . . definitely arranged and expressed to meet man in his fallen condition. Christ, in counsel with His Father, instituted the system of sacrificial offerings; that death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor, should be transferred to a victim which should prefigure the great and perfect offering of the Son of God. . . . Through the blood of this victim, man looked forward by faith to the blood of Christ which would atone for the sins of the world. {AG 131.5}

If Jesus did something different than what He promised to do, how is that not lying?

The Scripture you provided did not present Jesus as saying He would destroy anyone. It said they would die.

54And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

55But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

56For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. (Luke 9:54-56)

TE: If Jesus did something different than what He promised to do, how is that not lying?

MM: He didn't lie. Instead of immediately visiting death upon them He stepped in as their Saviour and immediately paid the penalty on their behalf. Jesus' death applied on their behalf in the day they sinned. He kept His promise, but in a way different than expected. Remember, both Adam and Eve were surprised that they did not immediately die the instant they sinned.

MM, you think Eve ate of the forbidden fruit thinking that immediately upon doing this she would die? Why would she do this? Did she want to die? Isn't the reason she ate of the fruit because she believed the serpent, who said she wouldn't die?

Scott, do you agree that "death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor" means they would have died instantly if Jesus had not implemented the plan of salvation?

Tom, Eve was deceieved into believing eating the forbidden fruit would improve her relationship with Jesus. She set aside what Jesus told her about eating it, that is, that she would die in the day she ate thereof.

MM, what I'm questioning is your assertion that Eve expected to die instantly.

Quote:

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Remember, both Adam and Eve were surprised that they did not immediately die the instant they sinned.

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If Eve expected to die instantly upon eating the fruit, then she ate it with the intention of dying. What you're suggesting here doesn't make any sense, does it? Don't you think what happened is that Eve believed the serpent, who told her she wouldn't die? Isn't it because Eve believed the serpent that she ate of the tree? If she believed the serpent, she would have expected to die, and would not have been surprised that she didn't die.

I like the points you brought out, Scott.

Tom, Eve was surprised when she did not die. So was Adam. Also, do you agree that "death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor" means they would have died instantly if Jesus had not implemented the plan of salvation?

PP 55-57
The serpent plucked the fruit of the forbidden tree and placed it in the hands of the half-reluctant Eve. Then he reminded her of her own words, that God had forbidden them to touch it, lest they die. She would receive no more harm from eating the fruit, he declared, than from touching it. Perceiving no evil results from what she had done, Eve grew bolder… {PP 55.3}

An expression of sadness came over the face of Adam. He appeared astonished and alarmed. To the words of Eve he replied that this must be the foe against whom they had been warned; and by the divine sentence she must die. In answer she urged him to eat, repeating the words of the serpent, that they should not surely die. She reasoned that this must be true, for she felt no evidence of God's displeasure, but on the contrary realized a delicious, exhilarating influence, thrilling every faculty with new life, such, she imagined, as inspired the heavenly messengers. {PP 56.1}

… He resolved to share her fate; if she must die, he would die with her. After all, he reasoned, might not the words of the wise serpent be true? Eve was before him, as beautiful and apparently as innocent as before this act of disobedience. She expressed greater love for him than before. No sign of death appeared in her, and he decided to brave the consequences. He seized the fruit and quickly ate. {PP 56.2}

MM, you just keep saying the same thing over and over without presenting any reason for what you're saying.

Eve could not have expected to die when she ate of the fruit, or she would have been doing so with the intent of commiting suicide. She ate of the fruit because she believed the lies of the serpent, which included the lie "you shall not surely die."

Is there any reason for your comment that Eve was surprised when she did not die? If you could respond with something other than just repeating what you already said, that Eve was surprised she didn't die, that would be terrific!

Regarding the question if Eve would have died, "as soon as their was sin, there was a Savior." Man would have died immediately but for the mercy and grace of God. Sin is deadly.