What does any parent want from his child? To be successful. What areas does God care about whether we are successful? I suspect he does not care about how rich we are, or how famous. Maybe he wants most for us to respect him. Maybe what he wants is different for different people. Maybe because it is impossible for us to fully understand God, it is impossible for us to really know what he would like from each of us.

What does God want of us?

He wants along with all the above, our obedience.

Romans 16:25-27

Now to God who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages but is now disclosed, and through the prophetic writings is made known to all the Gentiles, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith - to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever! Amen

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Be Still, My Soul
Zita

What all of you have written is also true, but I have a question. If God wants our obedience, what then, is the "obedience of faith" (as noted in the quote from Romans 16 that Zita posted)? If we take in entirety, it seems that "obedience" and "obedience of faith" could be two different things.

A question was posed today - "which comes first, faith or works?" or, in other words, faith or obedience? Is this a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, or does it have an answer?

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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*

What all of you have written is also true, but I have a question. If God wants our obedience, what then, is the "obedience of faith" (as noted in the quote from Romans 16 that Zita posted)? If we take in entirety, it seems that "obedience" and "obedience of faith" could be two different things.
A question was posed today - "which comes first, faith or works?" or, in other words, faith or obedience? Is this a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, or does it have an answer?
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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*

I think “obedience” is our effort to obey, and “obedience of faith” is obedience as the fruit of faith. The first is impossible; then what is true is the latter.

I will answer that faith comes first, it comes by hearing the word of God. Works or obedience will be produced whenever this believer have identified himself with Christ through baptism, the Spirit then will works in him “His willing and His doing.”

In His love

James S.

[This message has been edited by James Saptenno (edited March 25, 2001).]

So, then, if faith must come before obedience and obedience can only come from Christ as a result of true faith, then what is it that we are asked of God to give? If we follow the logic given by James and followed by myself, it cannot be obedience since it is impossible for us to give true obedience . . .

If obedience of faith is different, how do we attain to it? What then, is our job? What thing are we required to do to come to Christ and to live a Christ-like life? What is required of us that is within our power to do??

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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*

The topic on this thread was the tile of a book I've recently bought.

Various chapters include questions that God asked characters from the Bible.

For instance, "Where art thou?" to Adam (also a great sermon by Dwight Moody). "What's in your hand?" to Moses.

Answers to these seemingly easy questions lead the reader to think about God's requirements. It may even get us to ask "What is God asking of me?"

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Be glad for all God is planning for you. Be patient in trouble, and always be prayerful. Rom. 12:12 NLT

Salvation is God’s grace for mankind through Christ work of redemption.

We received this salvation by faith in Christ when we identified ourselves with His death and resurrection through holy baptism.

To remain save is now the question. Is it by works (keeping the law), or is it by faith + works (my faith in Christ is the base of the good deeds I perform with the help of the indwelling Spirit in me), or is it by grace (the imparted righteousness of Christ)?

If by works, then Christ die in vain!

If by faith + works, then the Spirit is my Savior, because without His help I can’t produce good deeds, i.e. keeping the law and perfection required for heaven and eternal life. Without the help of the Spirit that give power to me to keep God’s law, I’m lost!

If by grace, then all the willing and the doing in me is God’s work through his indwelling Spirit. Good deeds, a life in harmony with God’s law is then fruit of the Spirit. Righteousness is by grace and justification is of faith (Philippians 3:9; Romans 3:21-24).

What is needed from us to remain save?

By works; perfect and continuous 24 hours round the clock obedience to the law of God. You don’t need a Savior because righteousness is by the law. Breaking the law is instant death, no remedy.

By faith + works; our active part in exercising our faith by an earnest effort to live according to God’s will, i.e. keeping the law as a requirement for heaven and eternal life. Breaking the law is sin unto death.

By grace; remain in Christ by faith and made up the mind to live for God. Faith and a choice to live for God and not for self; “Faith and a choice.”
Here, performance is fruit of the Spirit based on faith and nothing of works. Breaking the law is not sin unto death, as there is no condemnation for them that are in Christ. But a separation from Christ is possible and sin becomes death when we serve the flesh instead of God, or living in the flesh, sinful living as a life style. But before sin not unto death become sin unto death, or before the closing of probation, this believer is still in God’s grace and mercy.

Which one you choose? I choose the latter!

In His love

James S.

Amen James! I also choose the latter!! Thank you for that wonderful breakdown.

Grace, indeed, is our salvation. However, are there not still things that Christ asks of us? Or is being saved by grace meaning that we desire to do those things that Christ asks of us with a willing and obedient heart. Waiting on the Lord to tell us what it is He is asking. Still, I believe that there are things that He asks of all of us, such as:
"love the Lord your God with all your heart"
"love your neighbor as yourself"
Of course, as James has pointed out, these things are only possible after we have come to Christ and can only be kept continuous with a continuous reliance and faith in Christ.
"Without Christ I can do nothing, but with Him all things are possible". Therein lies the truth. I cannot do anything, even do what God asks of me by my own power. I must have a Power greater than me if I am to gain victory over sin and this world. I must rely wholly and completely on the saving grace that allows me to not only exist, but to continue for eternity. It is impossible for me to get to heaven. I have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. However, because of Christ's sacrifice, He has made it possible for me to share in His glory, thus, I can get to heaven - but only by clinging to Him and becoming one with Him. How do I do this? What is required of me? Just that. To focus my eyes on Christ and ask Him to never leave me nor forsake me, as He has promised to do. I am all too able, and even sometimes willing, to walk away from Him, but if my eyes are properly focussed on His glory, and if I have asked Him to keep me, I can rest in the assurance that He will and that He will keep me from falling to temptation. That does not mean that I will not be tempted, it just means that I will be given the Power to overcome temptation.

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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*

The Bible says:

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

It is obvious that we are saved by grace through faith and not through works, however, the following text is also important:

James 2:14 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

The above text clearly says that faith without works is dead.

We are saved by grace through faith as revealed through our works of obedience.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

Salvation by faith seems like such a simple concept to understand, doesn't it??? I was in college before I truly began to understand it, and only recently can I honestly say that I felt that I fully understood it. Explaining it, however....

There seems to be such a fine line between faith through works and works. Some could say that my works mean that I believe I am saved by them. I could say that my works show my faith. How do you differentiate between the two? Perhaps that is what Paul meant in 1 Cor. 13. Without love, works are just works and have no meaning (they are vanity as Solomon would have said). Perhaps it is when our works are filled with love that our works show our faith.

Check out the Paul vs. James thread in this topic. Seems to be going along the same lines as this thought.

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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*