When I presented the question, I didn't say who said it. I was interested in the idea. It appears from your response that you agree with me, that the law of God is *not* just a set of rules, and the word "just" could have been chosen a little better, as in the word "precisely." However, quite a number of seemed to jump into the thread defending the idea that the law of God *is* just a set of rules. So it's making for an interesting thread.

A key question to consider is if God could have chosen some other set of rules. That's what would make it abritrary. If by a "set of rules," what is means is an enunciation of the principles which make up His character, as best suited for human being, then it seems to me that we are in agreement.

The point I was making was that the law of God was not something God made up, as if it could have been something different than what it was. God gave it as a hedge to protect us from the negative effects of disobeying it, which would have existed even had the law had not been given, as James is making evident in his posts.


Tom

James, I'm not understanding you. One the one hand you say God gave the law so He could justly kill people, and on the other you say He killed people before He gave the law, and that sin is not imputed where there is no law. So it looks to me like you are contradicting yourself.

The law is a transcript of God's character. God's character existed before the law was given. The law didn't create any new thing about God's character. Judgment has to do with how we match up to God's character. We are either in harmony with God's character or not, regardless of whether the law had been given. The law doesn't make us anything we weren't already. It's a dianostic tool. It recognizes sin, and it recognizes righteousness.

I didn't understand the EGW question you directed to me.

Quote.
JS: But BTW, could you explain in brief what is “Sister White's insights regarding the eternal nature of God's law and kingdom and character?”

MM: All three are based on God's timelessness. The principles of God's law are as eternal as He is. Thus, the law was not created. Instead, it has always been. In other words, He didn't have to make it up in order to execute judgment or offer mercy.
Unquote.

I disagree if the law is not created, it was written by God's own finger. And God must issue a legal written law to execute his judgment. He must, otherwise he is unjust, unfair, a tyrant and dictator , precise as what Satan said about him and no one would love him.

In His love

James S.

Tom.

My line of though is clear that in order to justify what happened to men ever since Adam and Eve was expelled from Eden, God must issue a legal written law , without that he would be seen as a Tyrant, Dictator and not a loving God.

Enforcing his judgment without a set of rules, a written law, is showing his injustice and tyranny.

Therefore, when the time is right (at Sinai) God issued his written law, written by his Own finger, if he think it is not important to issue his law, he might command people to do what he wants without ever issuing a law written by his own finger.

Once the law was issued all men came under condemnation (Romans 3:19), because the Decalogue was not mean to be for Israel only and came in force just after the time it was issued, but it covers people and the time since the fall of Adam (when there is no law yet) till heaven and earth pass (Matthew 5:18).

If God never issued a written law (the Decalogue), then his judgment against men ever since the fall of Adam is UNJUST and NOT FAIR . Because when there is no law, there is no transgression and when there is no law, sin is not imputed, but nevertheless death reigned from the time of Adam’s fall till the issuing of the law at Sinai (Romans 5:13, 14).

It is clear, that I make a clear distinction between orally spoken law or commandments and written law (the Decalogue). The time when there is no written law, Paul refers as when there is no law, which I agree.

Romans 5:13 (NIV).
….., for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

No matter the law is a transcript of His character that exist ever since there is God, but to be JUST and FAIR, God must make it written to legalize and justify his judgment.

In His love

James S

The purpose for this thread is to pursue the question of if the law of God is simply a set of rules. Let's try that word. Whether we use the word "just" or "precisely" or "merely" or "only" or "simply" or whatever, my question remains the same.

Consider that the law is a transcript of God's character. Also the law is called "truth" by the Psalmest, and we are that it's end is "life."

Also the ten commandments may be viewed as ten promises, which have their Amen in Christ, to be received by faith.

Can these things be adequately encapsulated by the phrase "just a set of rules"?

James, if there were no law, then, by your own argument, God can not execute judgment on those who lived before the legal document was drafted.

For God to execute generations of men based on a document which He wrote hundreds or thousands of years after they lived would be the height of injustice! The law can only be a standard of justice for those who lived before it was formerly given at Sinai if it already existed in some form, and Paul brings out that it did exist in Romans 1 and 2, in that God has revealed Himself to all men so that they are without excuse.

Also the law was not ordained to death, but to life. It is sin which causes death, not the law, which Paul points out:

And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. (Rom. 7:10-14)

The problem is not with the law, but with sin. And the purpose for which God gave the law was not to condemn, but to save! God's character was revealed perfectly in Jesus Christ, who repeatedly told us that He came not to condemn, or to judge, or to destroy, but to save.

The law cooperates in our salvation by making clear our sin, and by making clear to us the righteousness of God, so that we will be driven to Jesus Christ in whom we can find pardon for our sin and the righteousness which the law declares.

James, the truth about God's existence was not written until Moses wrote about it hundreds of years after the Flood. Does this mean God did not exist until Moses wrote about Him? I'm sure you will answer - No. So, then, why are you insisting the law did not exist until Jesus gave it to Moses on tables of stone? Abraham obeyed the moral law long before it was ever written. I agree, however, that the other laws were new to Israel.

Quote.
James, if there were no law, then, by your own argument, God can not execute judgment on those who lived before the legal document was drafted.
Unquote.

I disagree! It is not my argument, but Paul:” ….., for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.” Romans 5:13 (NIV).
“Nevertheless death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses ………….” Romans 5:14 (NIV).

Clearly stated here:
1. The law was given at a later stage than the entering of sin in this world.
2. Death reigned from the time of Adam’s fall till Moses time when the law was given at Sinai
3. The time within Adam’s fall till Sinai when the Ten Commandments was given to Moses, is a time “before the law was given” IOW “when there is no law.”
4. If there is no law sin should not be taken into account, because, if there is no law there is no transgression (Romans 4:15)
5. But nevertheless death reigned in the time when there is no law, which is a time since the fall of Adam till Moses.

These are not my argument but Paul, the same with what I think that death which happened to people at the time when there is no law is an event that needs to be justified , because there is God Creator of heaven and earth and King of the universe. Therefore, the Law at last was issued at Sinai, written by God’s own finger on blocks of stone, to enunciate to mankind that this Decalogue is the law of God that God is the author of the Decalogue : Do it and live!

The implication to those who transgress God’s law is death, which by the issuance of this written law, is justified.

Ever since Sinai, through the Decalogue God has a legal law to justify his judgment.

Sorry Tom, we couldn’t get to agreement because I think you have seen it wrong.

In His love

James S

So it was not a sin for Cain to kill Able since there was no law against it?

Redfog