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Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77283
07/17/06 08:15 AM
07/17/06 08:15 AM
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OP
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Christ said that he is the only begotten son of God, that he indeed is the Son of God, and the other God is His Father. Only the Father knows when is the end of the world at Christ 2nd coming, the Son doesn't know. We always pray to the Father in Jesus name, eventhough He is the Creator of heaven and earth. We never pray to the Holy Ghost or ask something in His name. Is Jesus God? Is the Holy Spirit God? Are both equal God with the Father God? Is the Trinity doctrine not transgressing the 1st commandment? I need answer to these questions, can any one help? In His love James S ========== Topic spelling correction only. - Daryl 
Last edited by Daryl Fawcett; 07/20/06 12:56 AM.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commanrment or not?
#77284
07/17/06 08:49 AM
07/17/06 08:49 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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In the gospels, we read that the religious leaders accused Jesus of exactly this.
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commanrment or not?
#77285
07/18/06 12:56 AM
07/18/06 12:56 AM
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Full Member
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Posts: 149
USA
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Quote:
Christ said that he is the only begotten son of God, that he indeed is the Son of God, and the other God is His Father.
Only the Father knows when is the end of the world at Christ 2nd coming, the Son doesn't know.
We always pray to the Father in Jesus name, eventhough He is the Creator of heaven and earth.
We never pray to the Holy Ghost or ask something in His name.
Is Jesus God? Is the Holy Spirit God? Are both equal God with the Father God?
Is the Trinity doctrine not transgressing the 1st commandment?
I need answer to these questions, can any one help?
In His love
James S
James S
Is the “doctrine” of the “trinity” scriptural? I would have to say no it is not. There are many who would disagree we me and they will hold to the 28 fundamental beliefs as to there proof of the trinity, but please read what I write and pray for the Holy Spirit for decrement.
Pro chapter 8 tells us that Christ was brought forth from the Father and that Christ was brought up as the Son of the Father, Christ was a daily delight of the Father and that Christ was there before any foundation had been set.
Christ, Himself was one with the Father and the Father dwelt in Christ, read John 14. We also know that Christ prayed that His followers would be as one as the Father and He where. Christ also teaches that it was the Father who dwelt in Him that spoke and did the works and not Himself. He also taught that the Father and Himself would dwell in us.
Now if God dwelling in His Son makes Christ God then would we not also be “god’s” by the same line of thoughts? God forbid!
People use the part in creation where God said “let us” make man in our image to prove that the Father and the Son are one or that they are the same. But is it to hard to understand that the Son of the Living God was in the “express” image of the Father and that the Father was talking with His Son when He made that statement? Also you should notice that it was the Father who created us in His image.
Does not God Himself declare that He sees no other God before Him in the O T?
Do we not have the Commandments of God to teach us that there is only One God and that is the Father?
I could go on for the Bible is very plain about there being only One God and One Son of God and One Holy Spirit, which is of God and sent by both the Father and the Son.
Nowhere, can anyone find in the Holy Word of God where the Holy Spirit is ever called god. There is not even one text that makes that claim. Christ refers to the Holy Spirit as “him or it”. If he where god then would not the third part of god use the correct term? That is if the trinity is true.
Anyone can count God the Father, (1) God the Son (2) and God the Holy Spirit (3) are not one god but three in one. No matter how you cut it there are still three gods and thus you break the commandments of God.
Now, where and when did this doctrine of satan come into the SDA church? Will the founders did not believe nor did they ever teach such a perversion of the Word of God. The proof is in their writings, and I am not talking about these new books, which are full of changes and has much falseness in them. However I am talking about the old writings, which you can still get.
In the SDA “clergy” magazine “ministry” 10/93 you will find an article from pro. Knight where he plainly lays out that the founders could not be members today due to this false doctrine of the trinity”.
Amazing, that the founders CANNOT be SDA members today because of this doctrine.
In fact the Whore of Babylon that first beast of Revelation 13 states that the doctrine of the “trinity” is the FOUNDATION of ALL their DOGMA’s!
This seduction of satan began to come into the SDA church in the early 1920-1930”s. There where a few Baptist preachers that became SDA preachers in the late 1800’s that where teaching this doctrine and no one would listen and they stopped teaching it. However, you can find changes to the “Fundamental Principles” (Not the fundamental beliefs) in the 1920’s and 1930’s and on up.
This church was not a trinity believing church and it was listed as a cult due to our non-Trinitarian stance and in the mid 1950’s or so there came a major change in the beliefs of this church by a so called SDA “historian” named “L. R. Froom” there were a couple of others who wrote a satanic book called “question on doctrine”.
The subject of the “trinity came into the SDA church without so much as a vote at a GC conference meeting, it just happened.
It had not been in the 1872 Fundamental Principles that Sister White said would be counted as error.
In Revelation 5:1
“And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.”
If you believe in the three gods in one, then answer me this then, which god is sitting on the throne.
Rev 5:5 “And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.”
Again, which gods is this one?
Rev 5:9-10 “And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”
Now, which god are they made kings and priest unto?
Rev 5:11-14 “And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever”
Interesting here is it not, how does a god, receive honor, glory etc. It would seem that if he were a god he would already have such.
So here it is, the truth of the matter. There is no “trinity”, God the Father of Jesus bestowed not only a name above all others but God gave unto his only begotten Son, power , honor and glory etc.
Jesus is not God for Paul (among others) taught “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Cor 8:6
There is only One God the Father of Jesus. Jesus is the one by whom in believing in the His name and that He is the Son of the Living God and I can over come the world.
One question, I have asked this before and no one can answer it.
Where in the Holy Word (KJV) of God is the Holy Spirit ever called “God” what scripture calls Holy Spirit “God”.
I hope that this helps,
Peace and Grace
David
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commanrment or not?
#77286
07/18/06 01:24 AM
07/18/06 01:24 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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You missed the point.
The religious leaders accused Christ because they think they knew him as a man but acting as God, they think that Christ had done blasphemy.
What I asked is Christ God or the Son of God?
I didn’t question His divinity , only what is His part? A Son of God the Father, or a God equal with the Father God? Same for the Holy Spirit? What is His part? Is He equal to God the Father?
If they are equal, is that view biblical or is it man’s view? If they are not equal, is that view biblical or is it man’s view?
Are we not transgressing the 1st commandment when we “believe” that they are all equal?
In His love
James S
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commanrment or not?
#77287
07/18/06 01:41 AM
07/18/06 01:41 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Mat 16:16 … Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Christ said that he would build his church upon this immovable rock: the revelation that “He is Son of the Living God”.
A doctrine that teaches: that He is God in such a way, so as that He is not the “Son of God” is contrary to the revelation from the Father to which Christ himself attested.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commanrment or not?
#77288
07/18/06 01:43 AM
07/18/06 01:43 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote.
Pro chapter 8 tells us that Christ was brought forth from the Father and that Christ was brought up as the Son of the Father, Christ was a daily delight of the Father and that Christ was there before any foundation had been set
Unquote.
Does this mean that before there is a Son, God was all alone?
Does this mean that God had created a duplicate of his Own ? Man was created in God’s image and after His likeness ; Was Christ created in God’s image and in His likeness ?
In His love
James S
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commanrment or not?
#77289
07/18/06 03:06 AM
07/18/06 03:06 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Christ was not created; He was begotten.
Christ was Jehovah, the self-existent One, revealed in the Old Testament. He was, always has been, and always will be, the representative of the Father. When we've seen Jesus, we've seen the Father. If we want to know what the Father is like, we have but to look at the Son.
It's disappointing that so many have images of God which are so different than His true image, which is Jesus Christ.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commanrment or not?
#77290
07/18/06 03:57 AM
07/18/06 03:57 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote.
Christ was not created; He was begotten
Unquote.
What does that means? A bit vague for me.
In His love
James S
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commanrment or not?
#77291
07/18/06 06:23 AM
07/18/06 06:23 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote.
A doctrine that teaches: that He is God in such a way, so as that He is not the “Son of God” is contrary to the revelation from the Father to which Christ himself attested.
Unquote.
I assume that what you said is that Christ position is not equal with the Father, that he is exactly as what he said the Son of God , and that the Father is the only God whom we worship as according to the 1st commandment ?
If Christ is the Son of God, what is then the Holy Ghost?
In His love
James S
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commanrment or not?
#77292
07/18/06 08:28 AM
07/18/06 08:28 AM
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Full Member
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
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Quote:
Quote.
Pro chapter 8 tells us that Christ was brought forth from the Father and that Christ was brought up as the Son of the Father, Christ was a daily delight of the Father and that Christ was there before any foundation had been set
Unquote.
Does this mean that before there is a Son, God was all alone?
Does this mean that God had created a duplicate of his Own ? Man was created in God’s image and after His likeness ; Was Christ created in God’s image and in His likeness ?
In His love
James S
James,
All I can say to this question is that according to Proverbs 8 Christ was brought forth. Christ is the Only begotten of God, the one true God. Is this not what the Bible tells us?
Is Christ a duplicate of God? Well again the Bible teaches that Christ is the express image of the Father not a duplicate.
Yes if the Bible is true and I doubt it not then Christ had to have been in the image of the Father not only bodily but also in character. We are made in the image of God and we are to have His character as well but do we? Just because we are created in His image does not make us God nor could it.
I cannot doubt what the scriptures teach I have to take it for what is written. If I place doubt on what is there what do I have? What happens to my faith?
Peace and Grace
David
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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