HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Andrew, Trainor, ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield
1325 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,232
Posts196,211
Members1,325
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
asygo 29
Rick H 24
kland 16
November
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Member Spotlight
Rick H
Rick H
Florida, USA
Posts: 3,243
Joined: January 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
10 registered members (dedication, TheophilusOne, daylily, Daryl, Karen Y, Kevin H, 4 invisible), 2,718 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 17 of 35 1 2 15 16 17 18 19 34 35
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77443
08/21/06 08:14 PM
08/21/06 08:14 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Are you addressing me? If so, how do you questions related to the point I was making? (If not, never mind).


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77444
08/21/06 09:22 PM
08/21/06 09:22 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Quote:

How can someone believe that they were created by a creature? How can someone believe that the Creator is a creature? This is simply absurd.
Besides, worshiping a higher God and a lesser "god" is bitheism.




First of all we do not believe that we have been created by a creature; but we have been created through the Son of God.

It might seem odd to you, but if you step a little back and consider, you might discover that you too were not directly created by the Father or the Son, but rather through numerous generations of others through whom the Father gave you life.

I think you will agree that you have earthly Parents and that were it not for them or their parents and so on you would not exist. God also provided due honor and respect for your earthly parents through whom you received your life in the fifth commandment.

Now if these things be so even in a sinful state; how much more so would the Son of God be worthy of honor as declared by the Father considering that through him we all have received our being. Moreover, in him we have obtained salvation and inheritance.

The concept of worship you present falls far short of “Christ in you” which cries Abba, Father.

Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77445
08/21/06 10:45 PM
08/21/06 10:45 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
It sounds like you're making a distinction between "through" and "by." So you (John) would say it is correct to say that we were created through Christ, but not by Christ. Have I understood this correctly?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77446
08/22/06 12:52 AM
08/22/06 12:52 AM
J
John Boskovic  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

The meaning is clear in the scripture, and in context of my post. The word ‘by’ may be used in the same sense as through; but I understand Rosangela used ‘by’ as the source.

Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77447
08/22/06 02:27 AM
08/22/06 02:27 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
My question is if you understand that things were created "through" Christ as opposed to "by" Christ.

You gave as an analogy that Rosangela was "created" by her ancestors, which would indicate that Christ's act in creating was similar. That is, our ancestors did not create the original life that humanity received, but they passed it on. So Christ passed on the life that He received from God, and "created" humanity, similarly to how our parents "created" us. This is how I'm understanding what you're saying.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77448
08/22/06 01:25 PM
08/22/06 01:25 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:

If God cannot be tempted then the Bible lies for Christ was tempted was he not?
If God is immortal then how could Christ have died, for He was “SLAIN FORM THE EARTH” was he not?
Did Christ not die the sinner’s death? ...

How do you explain these texts?



Simple. God could be tempted and could die because He became a man. The Word was made flesh.

“Christ took the humanity of man. He became subject to temptation, endangering as it were, His divine attributes.” {7BC 926.5}

As God, Christ could not be tempted any more than He was not tempted from His allegiance in heaven. But as Christ humbled Himself to the nature of man, He could be tempted.” {16MR 181.4}

“Christ took humanity with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man capable of yielding to temptation and with the same aid that men may obtain, he withstood the temptations of Satan and conquered the same as we may conquer.” {GCDB, February 5, 1893 par. 1}

As a member of the human family, Jesus was mortal; but as God, He was the Fountain of Life to the world. He could in His divine person have withstood the advances of death, and refused to come under its dominion. He might even in His human nature have withstood the inroads of disease, His divine nature imparting vitality and undecaying vigor to the human. But He voluntarily laid down His life that He might give life, and bring immortality to light. He must bear the sins of the world, and endure the penalty that rolled like a mountain upon His divine soul. ... Wondrous union of man and God!” {17MR 339.2}

“He who had said, ‘I lay down my life, that I might take it again’ (John 10:17), came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Humanity died; divinity did not die. In His divinity Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He has life in Himself to quicken whom He will. All created beings live by the will and power of God. They are recipients of the life of the Son of God. However able and talented, however large their capacities, they are replenished with life from the Source of all life. He is the spring, the fountain, of life. Only He who alone hath immortality, dwelling in light and life, should say, ‘I have power to lay it {my life} down, and I have power to take it again’ (verse 18). . . . Christ was invested with the right to give immortality. The life which He had laid down in humanity, He again took up and gave to humanity.” {TMK 71.4}

Quote:

1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.



As I have said several times in similar discussions, if this text precludes Christ from being God, it precludes God the Father from being Lord.

Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77449
08/22/06 01:59 PM
08/22/06 01:59 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
John,

The Bible forbids me to worship my parents.

Why does the Bible condemn those who worship the creature instead of the creator? Does God contradict Himself?

"because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen" (Rom. 1:25)

Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77450
08/22/06 02:23 PM
08/22/06 02:23 PM
the1888message  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
I notice that you had nothing to say about the Bible text.

Can you find those same quotes or ones that hold the same views that you have given in any of her books? I am speaking of the books that she wrote or articles such as the R&H etc.

I can accept that Christ is divine, because it was given from His Father; it is part of His being the ONLY begotten Son of God.

I can also accept that Christ inherited His Name and that is also the same name as God, since it is also His Fathers name.

However, if I understand correctly from your statement that Christ is “God” then the humanity, which he took on and this same humanity that wrap His divinity was still with Him on this earth. Then as such He was still God and He still died and this “God” died.

Who was in Heaven?

Why did Christ the Son of God pray to the Father, which is of course not Himself, or every time He talked about His Father was He really talking about Himself?

Now if Christ is God then is the Holy Spirit God?

1 Cor 8:9
Quote “As I have said several times in similar discussions, if this text precludes Christ from being God, it precludes God the Father from being Lord.”

It does in fact preclude Christ from being God, as does a host of other text. As far as God being Lord, this is very possible for king David called both the Father and the Son Lord.

I am assuming then that you also belief in the “trinity”.

"If the Trinity is true then those who deny it do not worship the God of the scriptures...it is not merely speculation, but lies at the root of every man’s theology and affects his whole creed and practice." Raoul Dederen - Andrews University

Most of the founders of Seventh Day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination’s fundamental beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2 which deals with the doctrine of the Trinity" George Knight - Ministry, October 1993, p.10.

"Understandingly my non-Adventist friends were confused, ‘How could five people belonging the same church have such different opinions about God?’ they asked. A Jewish friend remarked, ‘that means every time Adventists pray, some are praying to one God, and some to many Gods.’ ‘Your church sounds like confusion,’ a Muslin interjected, ‘I don’t think that I would want to go to your church.’
"This incident troubled me for the entire week. I had always believed in the Trinity as stated in the twenty-seven Fundamental beliefs of Seventh Day Adventists, so it never occurred to me that some Adventists believed otherwise. The following Sabbath I went to church and asked various people about their belief about the Trinity. Amazingly I received radically different opinions. It seems clear that we do not know what we believe.
"If Adventists cannot agree on what is one of our fundamental beliefs, how can we then go into the entire world, and preach the gospel to every creature?" Collegiate Quarterly, March 26, 1999

“It is averred that Ellen White introduced the doctrine of the Trinity when she wrote in the book Desire Of Ages, that in Christ was "life original, unborrowed and underived". Is it not a mystery that one should teach the Trinity and never use the term, and in such a manner that it can only be deduced with much controversy especially when one was supposed to be making a decided effort to introduce it?
When M. L. Andreason, thinking that this was a Trinitarian statement, visited Ellen White to ascertain if she had indeed penned these words, Mrs. White, although confirming that she did write it, did not in any way link this to the Trinity. Is it not a mystery that she did not embrace an opportune moment to unequivocally state her dramatic change to a new position?
In Selected Messages book 1 p. 296, the same expression is used under the caption "Christ the Life Giver". Although this expression is commonly used to argue that the life of Christ was not begotten, i.e. ingenerate, yet in the same chapter she states that this "life, original, unborrowed and underived" which she describes as immortal life, may also be received as a gift by all repentant sinners. This notwithstanding the fact that it is the exclusive property of a divine Being since it is only the Father and His Son who possess immortality inherently, i.e. naturally, and therefore are able confer it on others. The quality of eternal life, which is different from the power to bestow it, is, however, identical whether it is ingenerate [unbegotten] as in the case of the Father, inherited [begotten] by His offspring (born] Son, or conferred as a permanent gift to creatures, because it is the life of God which has no origin [original], no source external to Himself [underived], and is permanent or indestructible [unborrowed]. Is it not a mystery, that life original, unborrowed and underived [immortality] which God wants to bestow upon His children, is being inadvertently denied them by a denial that the Father also gave it to His Son as a natural inheritance?”

"The mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of Catholic faith." (Handbook for Today’s Catholic, p.16)

Peace and Grace
David


The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77451
08/22/06 02:28 PM
08/22/06 02:28 PM
the1888message  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
WHO IS THIS GOD?
1 Corinthians 8:6
“But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
John 17:3
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
Revelation 21:22
“And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
1 Corinthians 11:3
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
Ephesians 4:6
“One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
1 Timothy 2:5
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
2 Corinthians 1:3
“Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort.”
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
“Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
2 Thessalonians 2:16
“Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace.”
WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN JESUS AND GOD?
1 John 4:15
“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”
1 John 2:22, 23
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”
1 John 4:9, 10
“In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
1 John 5:5
“Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”
John 8:42
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”
John 5:18
“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”
1 John 5:1
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
Proverbs 30:4
“Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?”
John 10:36
“Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?”
Mark 5:7
“And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.”
Hebrews 1:4, 5
“Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?”
Proverbs 8:22-25
“The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth.”
Proverbs 8:30
“Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him.”


The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77452
08/22/06 02:55 PM
08/22/06 02:55 PM
the1888message  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
1 SM page 205 also read Series “B” I believe page 210 for the same quote.
“Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth?”

1 Timothy 3:16
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”

1 John 2:22-29
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.”

If one claims that Jesus is “god the son” or “god” then we deny what the Bible plainly states.

1 John 5:10
“He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.”

1 John 5:3-5
“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”

Matthew 16:15-18
“He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

The “rock” that the church is built upon is Jesus being the “Son of the Living God”!

We cannot deny that Jesus is the Son of God. To say that Jesus is “God” or “god the Son” is a twisting of the scriptures and this is from the enemy of God.


Peace, Grace and Love in the One true God and His only begotten Son
David


The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
Page 17 of 35 1 2 15 16 17 18 19 34 35

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
No mail in Canada?
by Rick H. 11/22/24 06:45 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 11/21/24 11:03 AM
Fourth quarter, 2024, The Gospel of John
by asygo. 11/20/24 02:31 AM
The 2024 Election, the Hegelian Dialectic
by ProdigalOne. 11/15/24 08:26 PM
"The Lord's Day" and Ignatius
by dedication. 11/15/24 02:19 AM
The Doctrine of the Nicolaitans
by dedication. 11/14/24 04:00 PM
Will Trump be able to lead..
by dedication. 11/13/24 07:13 PM
Is Lying Ever Permitted?
by kland. 11/13/24 05:04 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 11/13/24 04:06 PM
Profiles Of Jesus In Zecharia
by dedication. 11/13/24 02:23 AM
Good and Evil of Higher Critical Bible Study
by dedication. 11/12/24 07:31 PM
The Great White Throne
by dedication. 11/12/24 06:39 PM
A god whom his fathers knew not..
by TruthinTypes. 11/05/24 12:19 AM
Understanding the Battle of Armageddon
by Rick H. 10/25/24 07:25 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Dr Ben Carson: Church and State
by Rick H. 11/22/24 07:12 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by dedication. 11/22/24 04:02 PM
Will Trump Pass The Sunday Law?
by dedication. 11/22/24 12:51 PM
Understanding the 1,260-year Prophecy
by dedication. 11/22/24 12:35 PM
Private Schools
by Rick H. 11/22/24 07:54 AM
The Church is Suing the State of Maryland
by Rick H. 11/16/24 04:43 PM
Has the Catholic Church Changed?
by TheophilusOne. 11/16/24 08:53 AM
Dr Conrad Vine Banned
by Rick H. 11/15/24 06:11 AM
Understanding the 1290 & 1335 of Daniel 12?
by dedication. 11/05/24 03:16 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1