Are you addressing me? If so, how do you questions related to the point I was making? (If not, never mind).

It sounds like you're making a distinction between "through" and "by." So you (John) would say it is correct to say that we were created through Christ, but not by Christ. Have I understood this correctly?

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

The meaning is clear in the scripture, and in context of my post. The word ‘by’ may be used in the same sense as through; but I understand Rosangela used ‘by’ as the source.

My question is if you understand that things were created "through" Christ as opposed to "by" Christ.

You gave as an analogy that Rosangela was "created" by her ancestors, which would indicate that Christ's act in creating was similar. That is, our ancestors did not create the original life that humanity received, but they passed it on. So Christ passed on the life that He received from God, and "created" humanity, similarly to how our parents "created" us. This is how I'm understanding what you're saying.

John,

The Bible forbids me to worship my parents.

Why does the Bible condemn those who worship the creature instead of the creator? Does God contradict Himself?

"because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen" (Rom. 1:25)

I notice that you had nothing to say about the Bible text.

Can you find those same quotes or ones that hold the same views that you have given in any of her books? I am speaking of the books that she wrote or articles such as the R&H etc.

I can accept that Christ is divine, because it was given from His Father; it is part of His being the ONLY begotten Son of God.

I can also accept that Christ inherited His Name and that is also the same name as God, since it is also His Fathers name.

However, if I understand correctly from your statement that Christ is “God” then the humanity, which he took on and this same humanity that wrap His divinity was still with Him on this earth. Then as such He was still God and He still died and this “God” died.

Who was in Heaven?

Why did Christ the Son of God pray to the Father, which is of course not Himself, or every time He talked about His Father was He really talking about Himself?

Now if Christ is God then is the Holy Spirit God?

1 Cor 8:9
Quote “As I have said several times in similar discussions, if this text precludes Christ from being God, it precludes God the Father from being Lord.”

It does in fact preclude Christ from being God, as does a host of other text. As far as God being Lord, this is very possible for king David called both the Father and the Son Lord.

I am assuming then that you also belief in the “trinity”.

"If the Trinity is true then those who deny it do not worship the God of the scriptures...it is not merely speculation, but lies at the root of every man’s theology and affects his whole creed and practice." Raoul Dederen - Andrews University

Most of the founders of Seventh Day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination’s fundamental beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2 which deals with the doctrine of the Trinity" George Knight - Ministry, October 1993, p.10.

"Understandingly my non-Adventist friends were confused, ‘How could five people belonging the same church have such different opinions about God?’ they asked. A Jewish friend remarked, ‘that means every time Adventists pray, some are praying to one God, and some to many Gods.’ ‘Your church sounds like confusion,’ a Muslin interjected, ‘I don’t think that I would want to go to your church.’
"This incident troubled me for the entire week. I had always believed in the Trinity as stated in the twenty-seven Fundamental beliefs of Seventh Day Adventists, so it never occurred to me that some Adventists believed otherwise. The following Sabbath I went to church and asked various people about their belief about the Trinity. Amazingly I received radically different opinions. It seems clear that we do not know what we believe.
"If Adventists cannot agree on what is one of our fundamental beliefs, how can we then go into the entire world, and preach the gospel to every creature?" Collegiate Quarterly, March 26, 1999

“It is averred that Ellen White introduced the doctrine of the Trinity when she wrote in the book Desire Of Ages, that in Christ was "life original, unborrowed and underived". Is it not a mystery that one should teach the Trinity and never use the term, and in such a manner that it can only be deduced with much controversy especially when one was supposed to be making a decided effort to introduce it?
When M. L. Andreason, thinking that this was a Trinitarian statement, visited Ellen White to ascertain if she had indeed penned these words, Mrs. White, although confirming that she did write it, did not in any way link this to the Trinity. Is it not a mystery that she did not embrace an opportune moment to unequivocally state her dramatic change to a new position?
In Selected Messages book 1 p. 296, the same expression is used under the caption "Christ the Life Giver". Although this expression is commonly used to argue that the life of Christ was not begotten, i.e. ingenerate, yet in the same chapter she states that this "life, original, unborrowed and underived" which she describes as immortal life, may also be received as a gift by all repentant sinners. This notwithstanding the fact that it is the exclusive property of a divine Being since it is only the Father and His Son who possess immortality inherently, i.e. naturally, and therefore are able confer it on others. The quality of eternal life, which is different from the power to bestow it, is, however, identical whether it is ingenerate [unbegotten] as in the case of the Father, inherited [begotten] by His offspring (born] Son, or conferred as a permanent gift to creatures, because it is the life of God which has no origin [original], no source external to Himself [underived], and is permanent or indestructible [unborrowed]. Is it not a mystery, that life original, unborrowed and underived [immortality] which God wants to bestow upon His children, is being inadvertently denied them by a denial that the Father also gave it to His Son as a natural inheritance?”

"The mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of Catholic faith." (Handbook for Today’s Catholic, p.16)

Peace and Grace
David

WHO IS THIS GOD?
1 Corinthians 8:6
“But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
John 17:3
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
Revelation 21:22
“And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
1 Corinthians 11:3
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
Ephesians 4:6
“One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
1 Timothy 2:5
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
2 Corinthians 1:3
“Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort.”
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
“Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
2 Thessalonians 2:16
“Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace.”
WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN JESUS AND GOD?
1 John 4:15
“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”
1 John 2:22, 23
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”
1 John 4:9, 10
“In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
1 John 5:5
“Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”
John 8:42
“Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”
John 5:18
“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”
1 John 5:1
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
Proverbs 30:4
“Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?”
John 10:36
“Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?”
Mark 5:7
“And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.”
Hebrews 1:4, 5
“Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?”
Proverbs 8:22-25
“The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth.”
Proverbs 8:30
“Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him.”

1 SM page 205 also read Series “B” I believe page 210 for the same quote.
“Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth?”

1 Timothy 3:16
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”

1 John 2:22-29
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.”

If one claims that Jesus is “god the son” or “god” then we deny what the Bible plainly states.

1 John 5:10
“He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.”

1 John 5:3-5
“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”

Matthew 16:15-18
“He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

The “rock” that the church is built upon is Jesus being the “Son of the Living God”!

We cannot deny that Jesus is the Son of God. To say that Jesus is “God” or “god the Son” is a twisting of the scriptures and this is from the enemy of God.


Peace, Grace and Love in the One true God and His only begotten Son
David