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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77483
08/29/06 03:35 AM
08/29/06 03:35 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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John, I don't think you're being consistent in the views you have expressed. Previously you have asserted that Christ is the Son, not because of His incarnation, but because of His relationship to the Father which He had before. If this is the case, then His becoming incarnate would not make Him God's Son any more than the Father's becoming incarnate would make the Father Christ's Son.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77484
08/29/06 03:38 AM
08/29/06 03:38 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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John, that wasn't the quote I cited. But I am interested in James reaction to the quote I did cite. I already know yours (you already answered it).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77485
08/29/06 03:41 AM
08/29/06 03:41 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Still awaiting the answer to the question of to whom, or what, God owes His existence. You have whetted my apetite!
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77486
08/29/06 11:17 AM
08/29/06 11:17 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
John, I don't think you're being consistent in the views you have expressed. Previously you have asserted that Christ is the Son, not because of His incarnation, but because of His relationship to the Father which He had before. If this is the case, then His becoming incarnate would not make Him God's Son any more than the Father's becoming incarnate would make the Father Christ's Son.
I do not know what I might have said, that questions the consistency.
I have said that Christ is the Son, not because of His incarnation, but because of His being born of the Father’s spirit before all creation.
So I agree with: If this is the case, then His becoming incarnate would not make Him God's Son any more than the Father's becoming incarnate would make the Father Christ's Son. Therefore the point I made in commenting on your statement that the Father could have ‘emptied’ (a concept tied to incarnation) himself and come as the son (or to speak as the son). I said: he could not say that he was the Son, because it would not be true.
Besides that, James’ comments have merit.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77487
08/29/06 01:10 PM
08/29/06 01:10 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Quote:
For God to come in person must be the Son of God covered by humanity, for by his coming, the Father would take care of the universe, since he is the Source of life and could never become a channel of the Source (1 Corinthian 8:6).
James,
The Godhead is the source of life.
The Son is also presented as the Source of life:
John 1:4 In him was life
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live"
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life"
And the same is true of the Holy Spirit:
Ps 104:30 You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; and You renew the face of the earth.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77488
08/30/06 01:44 AM
08/30/06 01:44 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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So God the Father could not empty Himself? Did I understand correctly? Only the Son could do this? Or am I misunderstanding your point? Is your point only that the Father could not have said He was the Son? That the personal pronouns would have changed?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77489
08/30/06 03:08 AM
08/30/06 03:08 AM
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Full Member
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
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Quote “The Godhead is the source of life.
The Son is also presented as the Source of life:” end quote
Col 2:9 “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
John 14:10 “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
The Father dwelt in Christ, thus in Christ dwelt the fullness of the Godhead.
Romans 1:20
“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”
Here in Romans, Paul is speaking of God, the Father and Paul calls the eternal power and the “Godhead” His. Meaning that the Godhead belongs to the Father.
1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”
To me this is saying that everything is by God the Father and we are in him (speaking of those who accept His son, etc.). Moreover, everything that is “created” or has “life” by the Son of God and we are “made” or we have “life” by the Son, however it was the Fathers power that the Son “used” or “was given”.
I am not sure how the “Godhead” is the source of “life”? Could you define that for me a little? With scripture please.
Peace and Grace
David
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77490
08/30/06 10:22 AM
08/30/06 10:22 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this John. It's not just that I believe EGW was inspired, but I also believe her interpretation of Scripture is correct.
Don't know what else to say.
I understand. Something, anything can be held as a belief, right? The question is whether it can be held as knowledge with understanding.
Quote:
I still like you.
Thank you Tom, that is very meaningful; and it is mutual. 
Quote:
Still awaiting the answer to the question of to whom, or what, God owes His existence. You have whetted my appetite!
Ok, good!!!
However, what I would like you to do for me before I go to that is: summarize for me what you understand that I have said so far and why I say it is important.
Also in contrast put what you hold it to be, and the reason why it is important.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77491
08/30/06 10:34 AM
08/30/06 10:34 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77492
08/30/06 11:20 AM
08/30/06 11:20 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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You see the Christ is the Son, not as a role, but by virtue as being begotten. We know the Father through the Son. Knowing the Son has to do with faith being rightly aligned. You see that the Son did not always exist, because you don't think He could be a Son if He did.
Basically you see that's it's important that we know the Son as He is because that's the way that we know God as He is.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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