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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77583
09/20/06 10:37 AM
09/20/06 10:37 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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GordonB.
Did you mean that because Christ had died, then the only true God who is alone immortal is the Father?
In His love
James S
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77584
09/20/06 10:41 AM
09/20/06 10:41 AM
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OP
Charter Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Rosa.
Then we have God the Father who alone is immortal and Jesus Christ who is also alone immortal?
If both are immortal, why does it said, alone?
In His love
James S
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77585
09/20/06 01:09 PM
09/20/06 01:09 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
“And this will be made manifest at the proper time by the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality.”
Who does the Bible present as the King of kings and Lord of lords?
As usual you take partial info and build your own story on it. That is the way the Trinitarian doctrine is made. It is not in truth.
1Ti 6:15, 16 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
It is the Father.
Quote:
“Eternal Life” is not a relationship, it’s a person, a “He”. This is crystal clear in the Greek.
I thought you told me "eternal life" was a “she”.
It is obvious you do not know the person or understand the relationship, or the life. Yes, it is crystal clear.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
You figure out what that "knowing" means.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77586
09/20/06 01:13 PM
09/20/06 01:13 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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James,
The Bible says there is just one Lord, Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:5). Does this mean that the Father is not Lord? Of course not; but Christ, not the Father, is especially the Lord of the church.
The Bible says that Christ alone has immortality. Does this mean that the Father doesn’t have immortality? Of course not. But it means that it was Christ who “brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Tim. 1:10), that is, He is the person from whom our immortality comes.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77587
09/20/06 01:33 PM
09/20/06 01:33 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Quote:
whom no man hath seen, nor can see
Your conclusion that it refers to the Father is just because the verse says no one has seen the Lord of Lords? No one has seen Him in the unapproachable light He dwells in. Christ came in flesh, not in His glory. We have a representation of Him in Revelation, as we have a representation of the Father in Daniel (the Ancient of Days). But these are just symbols.
Who is the following text referring to, John?
Genesis 17:1 “When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, ‘I am the Almighty God; walk before Me and be perfect.’”
Quote:
I thought you told me "eternal life" was a “she”.
It seems you didn’t pay attention to what I said. Post #86407:
>>The same Person is, at the same time, the true God and the eternal life. The sentence cannot be translated “this is the true God and this is eternal life,” because “this” is masculine and “the eternal life” is feminine. Therefore, “the true God” and “the eternal life” are equated in the same Person in this passage.<<
Saying it more clearly: although hOUTOS is masculine, it has two predicates: one masculine (the true God) and one feminine (the Eternal Life). That’s precisely why the true God and the Eternal Life must be the same person. There is no feminine pronoun (hAUTE) for “the Eternal Life,” like in John 17:3. Therefore, the Eternal Life here is not an attribute, like in John 17:3, but a Person.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77588
09/20/06 06:03 PM
09/20/06 06:03 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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“All created beings live by the will and power of God. They are recipients of the life of the Son of God. However able and talented, however large their capacities, they are replenished with life from the source of all life. He is the spring, the fountain, of life. Only he who alone hath immortality, dwelling in light and life, could say, ‘I have power to lay down my life, and I have power to take it again.’" {YI, August 4, 1898 par. 2}
This passage makes it clear that Christ is the One being referred to who alone has immortality. Isn't this clear? One might choose not to accept what Ellen White is saying here, or argue that she is not authoritative, or wrong, but I don't see how anyone could argue what she is affirming. This makes the arguments that our history is not Trinitarian a bit hollow, it seems to me, along with other statements quoted throughout this thread from Ellen White.
I haven't been following the whole thread. Has the point that Jesus is Jehovah been discussed?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77589
09/20/06 10:02 PM
09/20/06 10:02 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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How does the Father dwell in the Son?
How does the Son dwell in the Father?
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77590
09/20/06 10:12 PM
09/20/06 10:12 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
And this is the everlasting life: It is that relationship which is: being in the Father - the true God, by being in the Son of the Father.
This is completely untenable in the Greek, and you know it, John.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, (by being) in his Son Jesus Christ.
To you, it may be untenable, but to those who know the indwelling it is the “eternal life” as it was to John.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77591
09/20/06 11:43 PM
09/20/06 11:43 PM
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Quote:
“All created beings live by the will and power of God. They are recipients of the life of the Son of God. However able and talented, however large their capacities, they are replenished with life from the source of all life. He is the spring, the fountain, of life. Only he who alone hath immortality, dwelling in light and life, could say, ‘I have power to lay down my life, and I have power to take it again.’" {YI, August 4, 1898 par. 2}
John,
You are obviously ignoring this most crucial and important part of the above EGW quote, "Only he who alone hath immortality,..............could say, ‘I have power to lay down my life, and I have power to take it again.’"
What is your response to the "Only he who alone hath immortality" which is obviously referring to Jesus Christ?
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77592
09/21/06 01:34 AM
09/21/06 01:34 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
DA21
But turning from all lesser representations , we behold God in Jesus. Looking unto Jesus we see that it is the glory of our God to give. "I do nothing of Myself," said Christ; "the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father." "I seek not Mine own glory," but the glory of Him that sent Me. John 8:28; 6:57; 8:50; 7:18. In these words is set forth the great principle which is the law of life for the universe. All things Christ received from God, but He took to give. So in the heavenly courts, in His ministry for all created beings: through the beloved Son, the Father's life flows out to all; through the Son it returns, in praise and joyous service, a tide of love, to the great Source of all
It is properly understood in this context.
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