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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77603
09/23/06 12:31 AM
09/23/06 12:31 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:

This is wrong, I disagree with this.



Then you disagree with Revelation 19:16, you disagree with Ellen White, and you disagree with the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77604
09/23/06 10:11 AM
09/23/06 10:11 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
OK. I am going to answer this before reading the post/s that were made since.

Christ while on this earth couldn't use His own divinity, therefore, He depended on the divinity that came both from the Father and the Holy Spirit. In this sense the Father, the Holy Spirit dwelled in Christ.

If Christ had used His own divinity, the devil could have said that He couldn't have done it in His humanity alone. If Christ couldn't have done it in His humanity alone through dependence on the Father and the Holy Spirit, then neither could we.

John, I am now waiting for you to answer my question.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77605
09/23/06 02:55 PM
09/23/06 02:55 PM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
1 Timothy 6:14-16.
I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time – God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever, Amen.

Here, undeniable he who has immortality is God, the Father, the only Ruler, King of kings an Lord of lords.

1 Corinthians 8:6.
Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live, and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

God the Father, is the only Ruler, King of kings and Lord of lords, whom alone is immortal, the great Source of life, from him all things came.

Quote.
The Bible says that the Father alone has immortality. Does this mean that Christ doesn’t have immortality? Of course not; but it means that Christ obtains his immortality from the Father. It is by this very fact that he “brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Tim. 1:10), that is, He is the person through whom our immortality comes.
Unquote.

Very clear!

I go along with the bible.

In His love

James S

Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77606
09/23/06 03:26 PM
09/23/06 03:26 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Who is the Faithful and True referring to?

Who is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords referring to?


Both are referring to Christ, not the Father, as the following text shows:

Quote:


Rev. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.



Likewise, 1 Tim. 6:14-16 in which the King of kings and Lord of lords also appears, is obviously referring specifically to Jesus Christ, who alone has immortality.

God alone has immortality. In other words, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit alone has immortality.

The Father is Jehovah God.
The Son is Jehovah God.
The Holy Spirit is Jehovah God.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77607
09/23/06 03:58 PM
09/23/06 03:58 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
There is something missing here, you see the angels in heaven are immortal, every divine being in heaven is immortal, Moses and Elijah, and the redemmed from the earth (those who rose after Christ's resurrection) that are in heaven are immortal.
So there is a missing element here, immortal compared to who, what??
The FaithFul and True King riding on the horse is Christ, it is the exact opposite of Him riding through Jerusalem on a donkey, where it symbolized humility, now He comes as King and conqeurer. Inf act the Father has given Him the kingdom to rule, and has given us to Christ.
When I get home and if I have time I will give Bible verses for each of the sentences\paragraphs I posted, or you can look them up
God Bless & Happy Sabbath,
Will

Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77608
09/24/06 12:52 PM
09/24/06 12:52 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
I don't know which version you quoted, James, but the name of God not even appears in this verse. The only name mentioned is the name of Jesus Christ.

Two passages in the Bible identify Christ as the King of kings and Lord of lords - Rev. 17:14 and 19:16. This is a special title applied to Christ, not to the Father.

Besides, Ellen White applies the passage specifically to Christ. In fact, this is the reason why most anti-trinitarians abandon their belief in the prophetic gift of Ellen white; they realize that what she says goes against their private beliefs.

Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77609
09/24/06 07:00 PM
09/24/06 07:00 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
John, I understand when Christ said the Father dwelt in Him that He was speaking of the unity He had with the Father. In John 17 we read:

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (John 17:21-23)

Unity seems to me to be what Jesus has in mind here.

I presented a text showing that Jesus is Jehovah. Many more could be shown. Any comment on this?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77610
09/24/06 09:27 PM
09/24/06 09:27 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
From my own reading and study of the Bible, I also agree that Jesus is Jehovah, that the Father is Jehovah, and that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77611
09/25/06 01:15 AM
09/25/06 01:15 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Quote.
......the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time – God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords ......
Unquote.

Clearly stated that God will send Christ to come at the end of time when he thinks it is OK, a day that even Jesus doesn't know, only the Father knew, which is reffered as the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords.

In His love

James S

Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not? #77612
09/25/06 02:17 AM
09/25/06 02:17 AM
J
John Boskovic  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Quote:

John, I understand when Christ said the Father dwelt in Him that He was speaking of the unity He had with the Father.

Unity seems to me to be what Jesus has in mind here.



Oneness is the result of the indwelling. The indwelling is the means of the oneness. There is a way and means of the oneness. The means of that oneness is the fellowship of spirit. It is the Father indwelling in the Son by his spirit. It is not just a unity of ideas, purposes, and interests. There is an actual personal presence of the Father in the Son by his spirit. There is a fellowship of Christ with Father; a fellowship of faith and love; where the Son by faith appropriates the spirit of the Father and lives thereby. Thus he is the express image of the Father’s person.

This then is the means and ways for us. To be born of the spirit, is to enter that relationship or fellowship with the Son; being filled with his spirit; his faith, we become sons, so that the Father can come and dwell in us by his spirit. It is a fellowship of faith where we by faith appropriate the spirit of Christ and thus as sons the spirit of the Father. It is a growing fellowship; we are first as babes, then children, then … till we all come unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

    That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (John 17:21-23)

Page 33 of 35 1 2 31 32 33 34 35

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