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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77613
09/25/06 02:29 AM
09/25/06 02:29 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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A number of questions arise from your comments, Daryl. While Christ was on earth: Did he possess his own divinity and only did not use it, or did he not possess it at all? What do you mean by divinity? Quote:
From my own reading and study of the Bible, I also agree that Jesus is Jehovah, that the Father is Jehovah, and that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah.
What is YHWH?
In your statement YHWH is either not a person, or he is the only person, and the other are only varying manifestations of the same person.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77614
09/25/06 02:42 AM
09/25/06 02:42 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
I presented a text showing that Jesus is Jehovah. Many more could be shown. Any comment on this?
Except we understand the indwelling of the Father in the Son, it will not be understood in truth.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77615
09/25/06 11:18 AM
09/25/06 11:18 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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James, you are using a biased translation. The original text says:
TERESAI SE (for you to keep) TEN ENTOLEN (the commandment) ASPILON (spotless) ANEPLEPTON (unassailable) MEKRI (until) TES EPIPHANEIAS (the appearing) TOU KORIOU HEMON (of our Lord) IESOU CHRISTOU (Jesus Christ), EN (which) KAIROIS IDIOIS (in its own times) DEIZEI (shall show) HO MAKARIOS (the blessed) KAI (and) MONOS DUNASTES (only mighty one) HO BASILEUS TON BASILEUONTON (the King of kings) KAI (and) KURIOS TON KURIEUONTON (Lord of lords), HO (the one) MONOS (alone) ECHON (having) ATHANASIAN (immortality), PHOS (light) OIKON (living in) APROSITON (unrivaled excellent); HON (whom) EIDEN OUDEIS ANTHROPON (not one of men beheld) OUDE (nor) IDEIN DUNATAI (is able to behold); HO (to whom) TIME (honor) KAI (and) KRATOS AIONION (eternal might). AMEN (amen).
Where do you see the word “God” (THEOS, in Greek) here?
Would you please consult other more reliable versions?
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77616
09/25/06 01:58 PM
09/25/06 01:58 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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If Christ is referring to indwelling, and He says that we are in Him, and He is us, then that means that our spirit indwells him, and our personal presence is manifest in Him by the indwelling of our spirit in Him?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77617
09/26/06 01:38 AM
09/26/06 01:38 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
If Christ is referring to indwelling, and He says that we are in Him, and He is us, then that means that our spirit indwells him, and our personal presence is manifest in Him by the indwelling of our spirit in Him?
There is a difference, Tom. That is why the Father is father and the Son is son. The words have meaning.
The Son’s spirit is in the Father in the sense that, by faith he united his spirit with the Father, instead of with his own being. The result is that the Father dwells in him by giving him his spirit without measure; his divine nature.
Our spirit is in him in the sense that, by faith we have united our spirit with his, instead of with our flesh. The result is that he dwells in us by giving us of his spirit, grace, that we become partakers of his spirit; his divine nature, hence removing the enmity, making us one with him. It is a growing fellowship; we are first as babes, then children, then … till we all come unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77618
09/26/06 12:24 PM
09/26/06 12:24 PM
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The indwelling in relation to Christ in His humanity, and I stress in His humanity, is an example of the same indwelling that we all can have in our own humanity. Of course, unlike Christ, we do not also have our own divinity within, as He has/had/has his own divinity within while on this earth in His pre-sacrificial humanity.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77619
09/28/06 10:26 PM
09/28/06 10:26 PM
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This was posted by Tammy in a similar topic:
-----beginning of quote-----Seems like this text would go right along with the ones you have - quote:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6.
It seems from this text that "The Everlasting Father" must be a name for Jesus, who is also "The Son of God". That is hard for my mind to understand, how the same Person could be "The Everlasting FATHER" and at the same time, be "The SON of God."
-----end of quote-----
This is an interesting observation posted by Tammy, which I hadn't thought of in this way previously; the Son of God being referred to as the Everlasting Father. This is truly the mystery of the Godhead, which probably isn't for us to understand at this time, and possibly not at any future time.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77620
09/30/06 02:07 AM
09/30/06 02:07 AM
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Full Member
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 104
Nevada
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Quote:
This was posted by Tammy in a similar topic:
-----beginning of quote-----
Seems like this text would go right along with the ones you have -
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It seems from this text that "The Everlasting Father" must be a name for Jesus, who is also "The Son of God". That is hard for my mind to understand, how the same Person could be "The Everlasting FATHER" and at the same time, be "The SON of God."
-----end of quote-----
This is an interesting observation posted by Tammy, which I hadn't thought of in this way previously; the Son of God being referred to as the Everlasting Father. This is truly the mystery of the Godhead, which probably isn't for us to understand at this time, and possibly not at any future time.
Daryl:
Colossians 1:15-16 says: "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him"
If Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the invisible living God, created all human beings, would he not be the father of every human being?
grw
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77621
09/30/06 08:17 PM
09/30/06 08:17 PM
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What you said makes sense and agrees with the SDA Bible Commentary, which says: Quote:
Everlasting Father. As God the Father is eternal, so also is Christ. Isaiah calls Him the Father because He is Father to all mankind in a special sense, being the Creator of men and of the world (John 1:3; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2; cf. Gen. 1:26). No other word than “Father” so fully expresses the love and care of Jesus toward His children. When Christ rules, it will be as a father to His people (Isa. 22:21, 22; cf. Rev. 3:7).
That same verse in Isaiah 9:6 also refers to Christ as the mighty God.
This is what the SDA Bible Commentary has to say about that:
Quote:
Mighty God. Jesus the Son is no less God than is the Father. He was one with the Father from the days of eternity (see Ps. 90:2; Prov. 8:22–30; Micah 5:2; John 1:1; 14:9, 11; DA 19).
It gives some Bible references, one of which I am also going to quote here:
Quote:
Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Who formed the earth? Jesus Christ formed the earth.
Then who is from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God referring to? Jesus Christ, who formed the earth.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77622
10/01/06 02:20 PM
10/01/06 02:20 PM
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Full Member
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 104
Nevada
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Quote:
What you said makes sense and agrees with the SDA Bible Commentary, which says:
Quote:
Everlasting Father. As God the Father is eternal, so also is Christ. Isaiah calls Him the Father because He is Father to all mankind in a special sense, being the Creator of men and of the world (John 1:3; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2; cf. Gen. 1:26). No other word than “Father” so fully expresses the love and care of Jesus toward His children. When Christ rules, it will be as a father to His people (Isa. 22:21, 22; cf. Rev. 3:7).
That same verse in Isaiah 9:6 also refers to Christ as the mighty God.
This is what the SDA Bible Commentary has to say about that:
Quote:
Mighty God. Jesus the Son is no less God than is the Father. He was one with the Father from the days of eternity (see Ps. 90:2; Prov. 8:22–30; Micah 5:2; John 1:1; 14:9, 11; DA 19).
It gives some Bible references, one of which I am also going to quote here:
Quote:
Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Who formed the earth? Jesus Christ formed the earth.
Then who is from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God referring to? Jesus Christ, who formed the earth.
Is not the invisible God (the Father of Jesus Christ) also our Father?
grw
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