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a small sample of SOP quotes .

It's a big subject.

“This is the new birth” = 1 hit

“By looking constantly to Jesus, from morn till eve, with the eye of faith, we shall be strengthened. God will make the most precious revelations to His hungering, thirsting people. They will find that Christ is a personal Savior. They feed upon His word, for it is spirit and life. This word kills the natural, earthly nature, and a new life in Christ Jesus is created. The Holy Spirit comes as a Comforter to them. Love takes the place of hatred, and the heart receives the mold of the divine similitude. The image of Christ is reproduced in the human agent, and by the transforming efficacy of the grace of Christ he becomes a new creature. "As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12,13). This is the new birth. {10MR 166.1}

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. . . . And of His fulness have all we received, and grace for grace" (verses 14,16). The yearning after entire conformity to the will of God, after His holiness and peace, opens the eyes of the understanding to see the doctrines of the Word. Thus God's children are strengthened and established; they are "steadfast, immoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord" (1 Corinthians 15:58). {10MR 166.2}
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“is the new birth” = 8 hits

In the beginning, man was created in the image of God. He was in perfect harmony with the nature and the law of God; the principles of righteousness were written upon his heart. But sin alienated him from his Maker. He no longer reflected the divine image. His heart was at war with the principles of God's law. . . . But "God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son," that man might be reconciled to God. Through the merits of Christ he can be restored to harmony with his Maker. His heart must be renewed by divine grace; he must have a new life from above. This change is the new birth. . . . {AG 20.3}

The first step in reconciliation to God is the conviction of sin. . . . "By the law is the knowledge of sin" (Rom. 3:20). In order to see his guilt, the sinner must test his character by God's great standard of righteousness. It is a mirror which shows the perfection of a righteous character and enables him to discern the defects of his own. The law reveals to man his sin. . . . It declares that death is the portion of the transgressor. The gospel of Christ alone can free him from the condemnation or the defilement of sin. He must exercise repentance toward God, whose law has been transgressed; and faith in Christ, his atoning sacrifice. . . . {AG 20.4}

In the new birth the heart is brought into harmony with God, as it is brought into accord with His law. When this mighty change has taken place in the sinner, he has passed from death unto life, from sin unto holiness, from transgression and rebellion to obedience and loyalty. . . . {AG 20.5}

The followers of Christ are to become like Him--by the grace of God to form characters in harmony with the principles of His holy law. This is Bible sanctification. {AG 20.6}
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It is the work of conversion and sanctification to reconcile men to God, by bringing them into accord with the principles of his law. In the beginning, man was created in the image of God. He was in perfect harmony with the nature and the law of God; the principles of righteousness were written upon his heart. But sin alienated him from his Maker. He no longer reflected the divine image. His heart was at war with the principles of God's law. "The carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." [ROM. 8:7.] But "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son," that man might be reconciled to God. Through the merits of Christ he can be restored to harmony with his Maker. His heart must be renewed by divine grace, he must have a new life from above. This change is the new birth, without which, says Jesus, "he cannot see the kingdom of God." {GC88 467.1}

The first step in reconciliation to God, is the conviction of sin. "Sin is the transgression of the law." "By the law is the knowledge of sin." [1 JOHN 3:4; ROM. 3:20.] In order to see his guilt, the sinner must test his character by God's great standard of righteousness. It is a mirror which shows the perfection of a righteous character, and enables him to discern the defects in his own. {GC88 467.2}

The law reveals to man his sins, but it provides no remedy. While it promises life to the obedient, it declares that death is the portion of the transgressor. The gospel of Christ alone can free him from the condemnation or the defilement of sin. He must exercise repentance toward God, whose law has been transgressed, and faith in Christ, his atoning sacrifice. Thus he obtains "remission of sins that are past," and becomes a partaker of the divine nature. He is a child of God, having received the spirit of adoption, whereby he cries, "Abba, Father!" {GC88 467.3}

Is he now free to transgress God's law? Says Paul: "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid; yea, we establish the law." "How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" And John declares, "This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments; and his commandments are not grievous." [ROM. 3:31; 6:2; 1 JOHN 5:3.] In the new birth the heart is brought into harmony with God, as it is brought into accord with his law. When this mighty change has taken place in the sinner, he has passed from death unto life, from sin unto holiness, from transgression and rebellion to obedience and loyalty. The old life of alienation from God has ended; the new life of reconciliation, of faith and love, has begun. Then "the righteousness of the law" will "be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." [ROM. 8:4.] And the language of the soul will be, "O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day." [PS. 119:97.] {GC88 468.1}

"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." [PS. 19:7.] Without the law, men have no just conception of the purity and holiness of God, or of their own guilt and uncleanness. They have no true conviction of sin, and feel no need of repentance. Not seeing their lost condition as violators of God's law, they do not realize their need of the atoning blood of Christ. The hope of salvation is accepted without a radical change of heart or reformation of life. Thus superficial conversions abound, and multitudes are joined to the church who have never been united to Christ. {GC88 468.2}

Erroneous theories of sanctification, also, springing from neglect or rejection of the divine law, have a prominent place in the religious movements of the day. These theories are both false in doctrine, and dangerous in practical results; and the fact that they are so generally finding favor renders it doubly essential that all have a clear understanding of what the Scriptures teach upon this point. {GC88 468.3}

True sanctification is a Bible doctrine. The apostle Paul, in his letter to the Thessalonian church, declares, "This is the will of God, even your sanctification." And he prays, "The very God of peace sanctify you wholly." [1 THESS. 4:3; 5:23.] The Bible clearly teaches what sanctification is, and how it is to be attained. The Saviour prayed for his disciples, "Sanctify them through thy truth; thy Word is truth." [2 JOHN 17:17, 19.] And Paul teaches that believers are to be "sanctified by the Holy Ghost." [ROM. 15:16.] What is the work of the Holy Spirit? Jesus told his disciples, "When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth." [JOHN 16:13.] And the psalmist says, "Thy law is the truth." By the Word and the Spirit of God are opened to men the great principles of righteousness embodied in his law. And since the law of God is "holy, and just, and good," a transcript of the divine perfection, it follows that a character formed by obedience to that law will be holy. Christ is a perfect example of such a character. He says, "I have kept my Father's commandments." "I do always those things that please him." [JOHN 15:10; 8:29.] The followers of Christ are to become like him,--by the grace of God, to form characters in harmony with the principles of his holy law. This is Bible sanctification. {GC88 469.1}

This work can be accomplished only through faith in Christ, by the power of the indwelling Spirit of God. Paul admonishes believers, "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." [PHIL. 2:12, 13.] The Christian will feel the promptings of sin, but he will maintain a constant warfare against it. Here is where Christ's help is needed. Human weakness becomes united to divine strength, and faith exclaims, "Thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." [1 COR. 15:57.] {GC88 469.2}

The Scriptures plainly show that the work of sanctification is progressive. When in conversion the sinner finds peace with God through the blood of the atonement, the Christian life has but just begun. Now he is to "go on unto perfection;" to grow up "unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." Says the apostle Paul: "This one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." [PHIL. 3:13, 14.] And Peter sets before us the steps by which Bible sanctification is to be attained: "Giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. . . . If ye do these things, ye shall never fall." [2 PET. 1:5-10.] {GC88 470.1}

Those who experience the sanctification of the Bible will manifest a spirit of humility. Like Moses, they have had a view of the awful majesty of holiness, and they see their own unworthiness, in contrast with the purity and exalted perfection of the Infinite One. {GC88 470.2}

The prophet Daniel was an example of true sanctification. His long life was filled up with noble service for his Master. He was a man "greatly beloved" [DAN. 10:11.] of Heaven. Yet instead of claiming to be pure and holy, this honored prophet identified himself with the really sinful of Israel, as he pleaded before God in behalf of his people: "We do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies." "We have sinned, we have done wickedly." He declares, "I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people." And when at a later time the Son of God appeared, to give him instruction, he declares, "My comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength." [DAN. 9:18, 15, 20; 10:8.] {GC88 470.3}

When Job heard the voice of the Lord out of the whirlwind, he exclaimed, "I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes." [JOB 42:6.] It was when Isaiah saw the glory of the Lord, and heard the cherubim crying, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts," that he cried out, "Woe is me! for I am undone." [ISA. 6:3, 5.] Paul, after he was caught up into the third heaven, and heard things which it was not possible for a man to utter, speaks of himself as "less than the least of all saints." [2 COR. 12:2-4 (MARGIN); EPH. 3:8.] It was the beloved John, that leaned on Jesus' breast, and beheld his glory, who fell as one dead before the feet of the angel. [REV. 22:8.] {GC88 471.1}

There can be no self-exaltation, no boastful claim to freedom from sin, on the part of those who walk in the shadow of Calvary's cross. They feel that it was their sin which caused the agony that broke the heart of the Son of God, and this thought will lead them to self-abasement. Those who live nearest to Jesus discern most clearly the frailty and sinfulness of humanity, and their only hope is in the merit of a crucified and risen Saviour. {GC88 471.2}

The sanctification now gaining prominence in the religious world, carries with it a spirit of self-exaltation, and a disregard for the law of God, that mark it as foreign to the religion of the Bible. Its advocates teach that sanctification is an instantaneous work, by which, through faith alone, they attain to perfect holiness. "Only believe," say they, "and the blessing is yours." No further effort on the part of the receiver is supposed to be required. At the same time they deny the authority of the law of God, urging that they are released from obligation to keep the commandments. But is it possible for men to be holy, in accord with the will and character of God, without coming into harmony with the principles which are an expression of his nature and will, and which show what is well-pleasing to him? {GC88 471.3}

The desire for an easy religion, that requires no striving, no self-denial, no divorce from the follies of the world, has made the doctrine of faith, and faith only, a popular doctrine; but what saith the Word of God? Says the apostle James: "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? . . . Wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? . . . Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." [JAMES 2:14-24.] {GC88 472.1}

The testimony of the Word of God is against this ensnaring doctrine of faith without works. It is not faith that claims the favor of Heaven without complying with the conditions upon which mercy is to be granted. It is presumption; for genuine faith has its foundation in the promises and provisions of the Scriptures. {GC88 472.2}

Let none deceive themselves with the belief that they can become holy while willfully violating one of God's requirements. The commission of a known sin silences the witnessing voice of the Spirit, and separates the soul from God. "Sin is the transgression of the law." And "whosoever sinneth [transgresseth the law] hath not seen him, neither known him." [1 JOHN 3:6.] Though John in his epistles dwells so fully upon love, yet he does not hesitate to reveal the true character of that class who claim to be sanctified while living in transgression of the law of God. "He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected." [1 JOHN 2:4, 5.] Here is the test of every man's profession. We cannot accord holiness to any man without bringing him to the measurement of God's only standard of holiness in Heaven and in earth. If men feel no weight of the moral law, if they belittle and make light of God's precepts, if they break one of the least of these commandments, and teach men so, they shall be of no esteem in the sight of Heaven, and we may know that their claims are without foundation. {GC88 472.3}
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“Nothing less than a practical acceptance and application of divine truth opens the kingdom of God to man. Only a pure and lowly heart, obedient and loving, firm in the faith and service of the Most High, can enter there. Jesus also declares that as "Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." The serpent in the wilderness was lifted upon a pole before the people, that all who had been stung unto death by the fiery serpent might look upon this brazen serpent, a symbol of Christ, and be instantly healed. But they must look in faith, or it would be of no avail. Just so must men look upon the Son of Man as their Saviour unto eternal life. Man had separated himself from God by sin. Christ brought his divinity to earth, veiled by humanity, in order to rescue man from his lost condition. Human nature is vile, and man's character must be changed before it can harmonize with the pure and holy in God's immortal kingdom. This transformation is the new birth. {2SP 133.1}

If man by faith takes hold of the divine love of God, he becomes a new creature through Christ Jesus. The world is overcome, human nature is subdued, and Satan is vanquished. In this important sermon to Nicodemus, Jesus unfolded before this noble Pharisee the whole plan of salvation, and his mission to the world. In none of his subsequent discourses did the Saviour explain so thoroughly, step by step, the work necessary to be done in the human heart, if it would inherit the kingdom of Heaven. He traced man's salvation directly to the love of the Father, which led him to give his Son unto death that man might be saved. {2SP 133.2}

Jesus was acquainted with the soil into which he cast the seeds of truth. For three years there was little apparent fruit. Nicodemus was never an enemy to Jesus, but he did not publicly acknowledge him. He was weighing matters with an exactitude that accorded with his nature. He watched the life-work of Jesus with intense interest. He pondered over his teachings and beheld his mighty works. The raising of Lazarus from the dead was an evidence of his Messiahship that could not be disputed in the mind of the learned Jew. {2SP 134.1}

Once, when the Sanhedrim council was planning the most effectual way of bringing about the condemnation and death of Jesus, his authoritative voice was heard in protest, "Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?" This brought a sharp rebuff from the chief priest, "Art thou also of Galilee? Search and look, for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet." Yet the council dispersed, for they could not obtain a unanimous assent to the condemnation of Jesus. {2SP 134.2}

The Jews suspected both Joseph and Nicodemus of being in sympathy with the Teacher of Galilee, and these men were not summoned when the council met that decided the fate of Jesus. The words spoken at night to a single man in the lonely mountain were not lost. When Nicodemus saw Jesus upon the cross, hanging like a malefactor between heaven and earth, yet praying for his murderers; when he witnessed the commotion of nature, in that awful hour when the sun was hidden and the earth reeled in space, when the rocks were split in sunder and the vail of the temple rent in twain; then he remembered the solemn teaching in the mountain: "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up." {2SP 134.3}

The scales fell from his eyes, and faith took the place of doubt and uncertainty. Beams of light streamed from the secret interview in the mountain and illuminated the cross of the Saviour. In that time of discouragement and danger, when the hearts of the disciples were failing them through doubt and fear, Joseph of Arimathea, a secret disciple of Jesus, came forward and obtained the Lord's body from Pilate, and Nicodemus, who at the first came to Jesus by night, brought a hundred pounds' weight of myrrh and aloes. These two men with their own hands performed the last sacred rites, and laid the body of the Saviour in a new sepulchre where never man lay before. These lofty rulers of the Jews mingled their tears together over the sacred form of the dead. {2SP 135.1}

Now, when the disciples were scattered and discouraged, Nicodemus came boldly to the front. He was rich, and he employed his wealth to sustain the infant church of Christ, that the Jews thought would be blotted out with the death of Jesus. He who had been so cautious and questioning, now, in the time of peril, was firm as the granite rock, encouraging the flagging faith of the followers of Christ, and furnishing means to carry on the cause. He was defrauded, persecuted, and stigmatized by those who had paid him reverence in other days. He became poor in this world's goods, yet he faltered not in the faith that had its beginning in that secret night conference with the young Galilean. {2SP 135.2}

Nicodemus related to John the story of that interview, and his inspired pen recorded it for the instruction of millions. The vital truths there taught are as important today as they were that solemn night in the shadowy mountain, when the mighty Jewish ruler came to learn the way of life from the lowly carpenter of Nazareth. {2SP 136.1}

Zyph, I'm not sure I understand all of your objections to this interpetation of salvation and the new birth experience, but you said plainly that God can indeed take a willing soul and remake him into the image and likeness of his Maker - and that's what I believe too. It's just that I also believe that we begin at conversion where Christ began as a child - morally equipped with all the attributes and fruit of the Spirit, but needing to mature and develop over time.

Dozens of EGW passages have been quoted throughout this thread which plainly teach that self must first die before we can be renewed in Christ. But for whatever reason you seem to think that we can be full of beer and all manner of unconquered moral imperfections and still be considered a born again believer saved in God's everlasting kingdom regardless. Or did I misunderstand you?

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: zyph ]

But would you agree that people who play church and pay lip service to the truth (in other words, lukewarm Laodiceans) are not in the same category as the one described above? They are placid apostates. Do you expect to see them in heaven? If not, then we're talking about the same thing now.

And what about the translation generation of end time believers - the 144,000? Don't you think they are also in a different class? Will they be translated alive with a belly full of beer, or a mouth full of profanity? If not, then once again we're on the same page.

I'm disputing that conversion occurs anywhere except at the place of turning. When we are turned around, we begin walking in the new life, learning how to unite with God to overcome. I promise you, when I was converted, a whole new life was born in me. My desires and thoughts changed. I wanted to be wherever God's people were and wherever God's word was being shared. I loved the Lord, and was amazed that He could die for me. I always had trouble grasping that concept. Many "sins" simply left me. Others, I had to do practical things, in His strength, to overcome. (Caffeine addiction, for example.) I was living a simple life, serving Him where I could. But I was not perfect, and I had not learned, for a long time, the secret of how to walk with God. So I was sincere, I believed the truth, but I was still struggling with some moral issues, and still moving forward. I had the fruits of the Spirit evident in my life, and I was bringing others to Christ. Until the day the devil broke out the big guns, and I fell and became discouraged, and took my eyes off Jesus, and turned away. Now, if I had died before I fell, was I lost? I was completely committed to the Lord. (I can almost hear you judging me, saying my commitment couldn't have been real or I would have stayed. But that might not be fair to you.) When I keep reading that moral perfection is a condition of being born again, I want to leave and never come back, because that is impossible. And I have been swayed by your assertions at times to the point of deep discouragement. I believe God doesn't hear my prayers because I'm a sinner, ans if He can't save me until I'm perfect, there is no hope.

But i have had a living experience which keeps bringing me back to this point: The ONLY possibility is that we are born again, and then we can be empowered. Love for God and the FACT of our salvation are the entire basis of our desire to change FOR HIS NAME'S SAKE.

The 144,000 appear to be a separate group, who, because of the situation on the planet at the time they exist, MUST be different. I like Venden's interpretation of "the hour of God's judgment is come". He says God is up for judgment, and this generation will be the final proof, if you will, that God is not a liar, because a generation of people can demonstrate that it is possible to obey. The devil said it isn't possible.

Since this group will be sealed, and have passed through the time of trouble, etc, they won't consist of new converts, so the issues of starting where God finds us will have been dealt with already.

I would need to study the subject properly before I said more, but that is my perception, albeit limited.

Mike, some people who appear to be placid apostates may be closer to God than you think. Be careful of how you judge them. I had an impression of one middle class couple, who never seemed to spend much time socialising with any of the circles in the church I attended. I thought they were workers in the church, but not committed. Then I found out the woman had sewn four dresses for a little motherless girl, whose father was bringing her to church in awful track suits, and quietly left them at his house. There were lots of quiet acts of christianity, and I was humbled by realising how kind they were. It gave me a new perspective.

I appreciate your intent. Don't get me wrong. I believe you love the Lord, and are enthusiastic about the possibilities in the faith relationship. I believe you are attempting to win souls. I give you this feedback - which may or may not be fair - because it has laid heavily on me at times. I acknowlege that you are the converted person, and I am not, so I may need some eyesalve (try a bucketful!) And I like and respect you.

Have a lovely Sabbath day.

In Christ's Love,

Dora

For years I was pretty proud of how God was working in my life. The contrast between who I once used to be and who I was in the Lord was like black and white. But I kept wrestling with impatience. All too often I found myself short with my children, my wife, others and myself. And really bothered me. I truly believed in the gift and promises of God, and yet it seemed to elude me. And then one day my wife got upset with me and said - All your talk about overcoming sin is no better than jibberish.

That stunned me. Especially since I had to admit it was true. It so discouraged me that I eventually backslid and left the church altogether. About a year and half later my wife, who kept attending church and having worship with the kids, invited James Rafferty (a long time friend) to have Bible studies at our house. Within a few months I was hooked again.

However, my problem with impatience seemed to regain momentum. I was not having as much trouble with it during the time I was backslidden. The evil one can be shrewd, eh? So I ended up developing an evolutionary belief system concerning victory and overcoming deep seated defects of character.

I finally came to the conclusion that the easier imperfections are quick to overcome (for me it was things like hard rock, bad TV, and cursing), and that the harder ones must undergo a type of devolution where the Holy Spirit, over the course of many years, empowers us to gradually gain control over them. But this only made matters worse for me.

How? Because now instead of expecting God to give me victory over impatience and I unconsciously excused it, thinking that in future God would take care of it in His own time. After awhile I even quit repenting of my impatience, which seemed to lessen again, because I reasoned that if God was willing to be patient with my impatience, then so should I. And guess what? My wife ended up divorcing me! She just couldn't stand my impatience.

But my theology was unphased. And two years later I married my second wife. As it turned out her major weakness is intolerance. What a combination, eh? Could I ever tell you some stories. But both of us were determined to stay married, though at one point it got close to divorce.

Her intolerance frequently forced me to exercise super human effort at being patient, but it was often not enough to avoid abject frustration. Then I began to plead with God to speed up His plan for giving me victory over impatience. Living with my intolerant wife made being impatient a luxury I could not afford to live with. I wanted a short cut over impatience because I wanted to keep my wife. And God started to answer my prayer right away.

I began to discover that the Bible and the SOP nowhere endorses my idea of gradually overcoming impatience. I found out that victory is a miraculous gift that defies human logic and human timing. Amazingly I learned that resisting temptation is a gift God promises now, not later on. And that it is my privilege and prerogative to live without sin now.

At first though I stubbornly resisted what I was reading, because I didn't want to end up like I was before my first wife left me. But within 6 months I was convinced of the truth. And the good news changed my life radically. Now when I'm tempted to be impatient, I no longer anticipate failure, instead I now totally expect victory - based on keeping my eyes on Jesus and claiming His victory verses.

A phrase from the audio book version of Pilgrims Progress, by Jim Pappas (sp?), continually inspires me - We cannot achieve what we cannot believe. Jesus said it this way - "According to your faith be it unto you." Mat 9:29. Now I tackle temptation believing victory is mine even before the fight begins. I know in Jesus I am an overcomer, therefore I completely anticipate victory, I envision it before it's a reality, and more often than not the victory is sweeter and more complete than my imagination foretold.

And my wife? What does she think? She's thoroughly delighted with her new husband - me! But not half as pleased as I am. Thank you Jesus!!! And my wife's intolerance? Well, bless her heart, she's improving. But more and more she is believing the truth about overcoming. And I have only Jesus to thank for that. I love my wife. She's a precious soul. I look forward to spending eternity with her. But more than anything I want her to have the blessed peace of mind that comes with victory and trusting in Jesus to give her power over intolerance.

That's my story. It's a never ending story. And I praise God for delivering me from a distorted view of victory. I can't help but to share it with others. I only hope and pray that as I share it people will not become unnecessarily overwhelmed and discouraged, but rather that they will rejoice in it as I have.

quote:

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Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
Is moral perfection sinlessness now, or is it on the road to sinlessness when this frail and sinful human body receives a glorious new and sinless body?

Maybe we can answer this by getting more personal.

Can anybody claim moral perfection or sinlessness now? In other words, can anybody claim that they haven't sinned in the last 20 years, 20 months, 20 weeks, 20 days, or even in the last 20 hours?

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

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Ha! Daryl

I couldn't resist...

How about the last 20 minutes? I might be able to prove that one.