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Re: The people of God
#79431
09/27/06 09:05 AM
09/27/06 09:05 AM
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OP
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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If it is only a condition that SDA church could fulfill thanks to their doctrines, even though depends to their members on how they live, then when can we say, or is there a time limit, where all other people in all other denominations are counted loss if they do not joint the SDA church?
In His love
James S
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Re: The people of God
#79432
09/27/06 09:49 AM
09/27/06 09:49 AM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Mike If what you say is or will in the future be true. That a person must be member of the SDA church to be saved. Would it not the also follow that any person who in that time holds membership in SDA church would be saved? You wrote: Quote:
Becoming a SDA church member is synonymous with becoming a member of the Remnant church portrayed in prophecy. It requires responding to the call to come out of Babylon into the SDA church.
I would suggest that this is potentially heretical for the following reason. It removes salvation from the person of Jesus Christ to the Institution of the Seventh Day Adventist Church.
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: The people of God
#79433
09/27/06 10:02 AM
09/27/06 10:02 AM
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Active Member 2011
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Quote:
Revelation
18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Again, anyone who refuses to heed the calling to come out of Babylon into the SDA church during the time frame described above will be lost. Nothing can be more obvious.
You are reading into the text. The call is to come out of Babylon. That this means going into the SDA church is something you either invented yourself or read somewhere thats not the bible.
Quote:
1. Or, do you believe God is using members of one or more of the Babylonian churches to call people out of Babylon as described in Rev 18?
I believe your definition of what a babylonian church is is, well, fishy (is that an appropriate word here?). I also believe that God is using those of His children who are not members of the SDA church to work for the Kingdom. Quote:
2. Do you believe God has entrusted one or more of the Babylonian churches with proclaiming the 3AMs?
As I suspect you are refering to denominations here, the responce has to be negative. However, I believe there are churches and individuals employed in churches within or without the different denominations who are.Quote:
3. Are there individual members within the various Babylonian churches that are also proclaiming the 3AMs?
As above.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: The people of God
#79434
09/27/06 02:27 PM
09/27/06 02:27 PM
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SDA
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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JS: Mike, I think the bible said that the people of God are those who has the righteousness of Christ in them witnessed by the law and the prophets. Is this a condition that only the SDA church could fulfill? James, here's what I posted on page one of this thread: Quote:
Of course, in one sense everyone, whether sinner or saint, is a person of God. But God makes a distinction between those who are chosen and those who are not. The chosen people of God in the last days, according to the Revelation, is the Seventh-day Adventist church. We are commissioned by God to call people out of Babylon (i.e., catholic and protestant churches) into the SDA church.
So, yes, there are people outside the SDA church who are experiencing righteousness by faith. However, in the corporate sense, they are not members of God's chosen people, His chosen church.
Does that make sense to you?
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Re: The people of God
#79435
09/27/06 02:33 PM
09/27/06 02:33 PM
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SDA
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Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Southwest USA
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JS: If it is only a condition that SDA church could fulfill thanks to their doctrines, even though depends to their members on how they live, then when can we say, or is there a time limit, where all other people in all other denominations are counted loss if they do not joint the SDA church?
MM: If people refuse to come out of the Baylonian churches before probation closes then they are lost. No one can ally themselves with the Remnant Church after probation closes.
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Re: The people of God
#79436
09/27/06 02:48 PM
09/27/06 02:48 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
Anybody who refused to come out of Judaism into the Early Church risked losing their salvation.
The issue has to do with the acceptance or rejection of truth. Whether one joins a certain denomination is a symptom as to how one has responded to truth.
It's very difficult to know what form the SDA church will have at a time when there is massive persecution going on. It may not be possible to "join" the church in the sense that we traditionally think of it. However, one who is saved will be embracing the truth that will be being portrayed, which is the important point.
It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth....
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love. The children of God are to manifest His glory. In their own life and character they are to reveal what the grace of God has done for them.
The light of the Sun of Righteousness is to shine forth in good works--in words of truth and deeds of holiness. (COL 415, 416)
This explains the important things which are to happen. The final message is a revelation of God's character. This is what the Great Controversy is all about.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: The people of God
#79437
09/27/06 02:50 PM
09/27/06 02:50 PM
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SDA
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Thomas, being a member of the SDA church involves more than having ones name recorded in the church books, right? Isn't that how it has always been? Claiming to be a SDA is not the same as being one. Do you agree?
Romans
2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
Also, do you really believe there are non-SDA people within the various Babylonian churches that are being led by God to call people out of the Babylonian churches? that know and understand the 3AMs? who are proclaiming the 3AMs?
As far as I know, the SDA church is the only church (or denomination) God has entrusted with the correct interpretation of the 3AMs. Therefore, I find it difficult to believe there are non-SDA Christians within the various Babylonian churches (or denominations) that are proclaiming the 3AMs, that is, the correct interpretation of the 3AMs.
If you know of someone outside the SDA church who is proclaiming the correct interpretation of the 3AMs, please quote them here. Thank you.
By the way, here is the SDA definition of Babylon:
GC 382, 38
Babylon is said to be "the mother of harlots." By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world. The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of Babylon must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God's people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. At the time of their rise these churches took a noble stand for God and the truth, and His blessing was with them. Even the unbelieving world was constrained to acknowledge the beneficent results that followed an acceptance of the principles of the gospel. In the words of the prophet to Israel: "Thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through My comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God." But they fell by the same desire which was the curse and ruin of Israel--the desire of imitating the practices and courting the friendship of the ungodly. "Thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown." Ezekiel 16:14, 15. {GC 382.3}
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Re: The people of God
#79438
09/27/06 02:57 PM
09/27/06 02:57 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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TE: It's very difficult to know what form the SDA church will have at a time when there is massive persecution going on. It may not be possible to "join" the church in the sense that we traditionally think of it. However, one who is saved will be embracing the truth that will be being portrayed, which is the important point.
MM: Good point, Tom. The following insight suggests that people who reject the truth, who receive the MOB, believed they rejected the SDA message, which is, of course, the gospel. It seems reasonable to conclude, therefore, that if they had accepted the truth, received the SOD, that they would have somehow associated or identified themselves with "these Seventh-day Adventists".
MAR 290
The people who have braved out their rebellion will fulfill the description given in Revelation 6:15-17. In these very caves and dens they find the very statement of truth in the letters and in the publications as witness against them. The shepherds who lead the sheep in false paths will hear the charge made against them, "It was you who made light of truth. It was you who told us that God's law was abrogated, that it was a yoke of bondage. It was you who voiced the false doctrines when I was convicted that these Seventh-day Adventists had the truth. The blood of our souls is upon your priestly garments. . . . Now will you pay the ransom for my soul? . . . What shall we do who listened to your garbling of the Scriptures and your turning into a lie the truth which if obeyed would have saved us?" {Mar 290.3}
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Re: The people of God
#79439
09/27/06 08:19 PM
09/27/06 08:19 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Quote:
Thomas, being a member of the SDA church involves more than having ones name recorded in the church books, right? Isn't that how it has always been? Claiming to be a SDA is not the same as being one. Do you agree?
Romans
2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
To be, um, finicky (never used that word before so hope its correct), Id think that you are bluring the line between the vissible organisation and the invissible body of Christ. The body of Christ being whomeever whereever that is saved while a member in the vissible body is whomever that managed to get a pastor or evangelist to baptise them. What you wrote fits with the body of Christ but Id not be to quick to call that body SDA. Quote:
Also, do you really believe there are non-SDA people within the various Babylonian churches that are being led by God to call people out of the Babylonian churches? that know and understand the 3AMs? who are proclaiming the 3AMs?
Well, for obvious reasons they are not preaching the 3 angles message in the way you described above, that leaving babylon by nessessity must also mean joining the SDA church. Noone could preach that without being an SDA while keeping any credibility. But if you remove the SDA exclusivist parts, then yes, I think you could find people preaching it. Quote:
As far as I know, the SDA church is the only church (or denomination) God has entrusted with the correct interpretation of the 3AMs. Therefore, I find it difficult to believe there are non-SDA Christians within the various Babylonian churches (or denominations) that are proclaiming the 3AMs, that is, the correct interpretation of the 3AMs.
As I said above, if the caveat "correct interpretation" implies as you did in posts above that in the end only members of the SDA church will be saved, then yes, you would be right. Otherwise, I think not.Quote:
If you know of someone outside the SDA church who is proclaiming the correct interpretation of the 3AMs, please quote them here. Thank you.
By the way, here is the SDA definition of Babylon:
GC 382, 38
Babylon is said to be "the mother of harlots." By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world. The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of Babylon must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God's people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. At the time of their rise these churches took a noble stand for God and the truth, and His blessing was with them. Even the unbelieving world was constrained to acknowledge the beneficent results that followed an acceptance of the principles of the gospel. In the words of the prophet to Israel: "Thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through My comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God." But they fell by the same desire which was the curse and ruin of Israel--the desire of imitating the practices and courting the friendship of the ungodly. "Thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown." Ezekiel 16:14, 15. {GC 382.3}
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: The people of God
#79440
09/27/06 10:37 PM
09/27/06 10:37 PM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote.
MM: If people refuse to come out of the Baylonian churches before probation closes then they are lost. No one can ally themselves with the Remnant Church after probation closes.
Unquote.
Is it really necessary to become a member of the SDA church in order to be saved in the last day, meanwhile many of those who are in the church would not be chosen?
In His love
James S.
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