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Re: The people of God #79451
09/29/06 11:58 AM
09/29/06 11:58 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
So the mark of the beast may have to do with images of God and coveting?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: The people of God #79452
09/29/06 04:13 PM
09/29/06 04:13 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thomas, I believe the SOP interpretation of prophecy is correct. I see no reason to duplicate it. I would simply cite the same sources. The Bible does not tell us what the MOB is. We have to figure that out for ourselves from the clues provided in the Bible. I agree with the conclusion God gave to Sister White. God's conclusion is based on historical facts and documentation.

Do you agree with the conclusion and interpretation God gave to Sister White?

Tom, the SOP provides a very balanced approach to prophecy. Do you agree that the SDA church is the only church that Jesus raised up to proclaim the truth about the 3AMs? Or, do you agree with Thomas that God is also proclaiming the 3AMs through various Babylonian churches?

Re: The people of God #79453
09/29/06 05:50 PM
09/29/06 05:50 PM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Quote.
Daryl, they do not become "chosen" until after they join the church. There is a difference between "my people" and His "chosen people". The SDA is the chosen people.

JS: Is it really necessary to become a member of the SDA church in order to be saved in the last day, meanwhile many of those who are in the church would not be chosen?

MM: James, the “shaking” will purify and purge the Remnant Church during the MOB crisis. As a result of this “shaking” all of the unconverted, time serving SDAs will leave the church and join Babylon. Also, all of the people in Babylon will, during the final crisis, leave their church and join the SDA church. Anyone who leaves the SDA church during the MOB crisis will be lost, and anyone who refuses to leave Babylon and join the SDA church during the final crisis will be lost.
Unquote.

So, SDA’s members are not the chosen people of God, they are just the same as all other people of God scattered among other denominations. SDA’s members are those who were called, but the chosen are those who would enter heaven and live eternally.

The chosen people of God are those who has the righteousness of Christ in their heart witnessed by their life, they maybe a Catholic, a Protestant, a Pentecost, a Methodist, a Mormon, etc.

In His love

James S

Re: The people of God #79454
09/29/06 07:09 PM
09/29/06 07:09 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:

So the mark of the beast may have to do with images of God and coveting?




I think it has to do with the law as a whole. The real question has to do with God's character. It is the message of His character which will be the final message of mercy to the world. Satan has misrepresented God's character in order to lead men into sin. When men believe the truth about God's character, that will lead to victory over sin.

Sin is transgression of the law. Not just the Sabbath.

Similarly the law is a transcript of God's character. So the controversy, the mark of the beast, must involve the whole law. If you break one, you break them all.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The people of God #79455
09/29/06 07:11 PM
09/29/06 07:11 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:

Tom, the SOP provides a very balanced approach to prophecy. Do you agree that the SDA church is the only church that Jesus raised up to proclaim the truth about the 3AMs? Or, do you agree with Thomas that God is also proclaiming the 3AMs through various Babylonian churches?




I'm not sure you and Thomas are meaning the same things by 3AMs, so I'll refrain from commenting for the time being.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The people of God #79456
09/29/06 07:13 PM
09/29/06 07:13 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:

The chosen people of God are those who has the righteousness of Christ in their heart witnessed by their life, they maybe a Catholic, a Protestant, a Pentecost, a Methodist, a Mormon, etc.




Another way of saying this is that those who are chosen are those who know God (in the sense Jesus spoke of in John 17:3).

There is a visible, or denominated church, as well as an invisible one. I sense there is some talking past each other going on here as some are speaking of one thing and some of another.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The people of God #79457
09/29/06 07:16 PM
09/29/06 07:16 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:

James, the “shaking” will purify and purge the Remnant Church during the MOB crisis. As a result of this “shaking” all of the unconverted, time serving SDAs will leave the church and join Babylon. Also, all of the people in Babylon will, during the final crisis, leave their church and join the SDA church. Anyone who leaves the SDA church during the MOB crisis will be lost, and anyone who refuses to leave Babylon and join the SDA church during the final crisis will be lost.




I agree with this in spirit. However, I would say that in the final crisis, all of God's true followers were believe the message that is being proclaimed. That's the important thing. Not joining the church, but believing the message.

It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth.

This is the work outlined by the prophet Isaiah in the words, "O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him." Isa. 40:9,10.

Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love. (COL 415)


The message of a message of God's true character.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The people of God #79458
09/30/06 04:29 PM
09/30/06 04:29 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
TE: There is a visible, or denominated church, as well as an invisible one. I sense there is some talking past each other going on here as some are speaking of one thing and some of another.

MM: I’m sorry if I haven’t been more clear. Again, I believe the Remnant Church described in Rev 12:17 is the SDA church. It is God’s visible denominated church in these last days. It is the only church on earth that is fulfilling the prophecy of the 3AMs.

TE: I agree with this in spirit. However, I would say that in the final crisis, all of God's true followers were [will?] believe the message that is being proclaimed. That's the important thing. Not joining the church, but believing the message.

MM: During Pentecost God added to the church daily all those who believed the message. That was during the early rain. The same thing will happen during the latter rain. Again, when God commissions us to call “His people” out of the Babylonian churches He does not leave them homeless. Instead, He adds them to the church, the visible church, the SDA church. During the final crisis those who receive and support the MOB will persecute Sabbath keepers as SDAs – not merely as troublemakers.

MAR 290
The people who have braved out their rebellion will fulfill the description given in Revelation 6:15-17. In these very caves and dens they find the very statement of truth in the letters and in the publications as witness against them. The shepherds who lead the sheep in false paths will hear the charge made against them, "It was you who made light of truth. It was you who told us that God's law was abrogated, that it was a yoke of bondage. It was you who voiced the false doctrines when I was convicted that these Seventh-day Adventists had the truth. The blood of our souls is upon your priestly garments. . . . Now will you pay the ransom for my soul? . . . What shall we do who listened to your garbling of the Scriptures and your turning into a lie the truth which if obeyed would have saved us?" {Mar 290.3}

Re: The people of God #79459
10/01/06 01:26 AM
10/01/06 01:26 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
One thing I am sure, that the people of God are those saints who keep the commandment of God with the faith of Jesus, those who has the righteousness of God fulfilled in them by the Spirit because they walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh.

Before probation close, I believe these saints came from all denominations, but after probation close, the saints are only those people of God, the Remnant of her seed. I am not sure whether this is inclusive SDA's church and its members or are there still people who do not joint the church but are the remnant of her seed too, keeping the commandments of God with the faith of Jesus.

In His love

James S

Re: The people of God #79460
10/01/06 07:23 AM
10/01/06 07:23 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, I'm not aware of any statements saying the things you are asserting (that those proclaiming the truth will be persecuted as SDA's). Are you aware of any?

I'm not sure there will be a structure in place that will permit the joining of the SDA church, at least as we traditionally think of it. If people are fleeing to the mountains, how do join the church? One could be baptized, of course, but will people be joining the SDA church of the mountain?

I think the important thing to focus on is the message. That's what's going to be driving things, not church membership.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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