Below are some quotes from Ellen White on revival. Notice the last one especially and how she describes the best revival she had seen up until that time.

I have been deeply impressed by scenes that have recently passed before me in the night season. There seemed to be a great movement--a work of revival--going forward in many places. Our people were moving into line, responding to God's call.--General Conference Bulletin, May 29, 1913, p. 34. {ChS 42.3}


When churches are revived, it is because some individual seeks earnestly for the blessing of God. He hungers and thirsts after God, and asks in faith, and receives accordingly. He goes to work in earnest, feeling his great dependence upon the Lord, and souls are aroused to seek for a like blessing, and a season of refreshing falls on the hearts of men. The extensive work will not be neglected. The larger plans will be laid at the right time; but personal, individual effort and interest for your friends and neighbors, will accomplish much more than can be estimated. It is for the want of this kind of labor that souls for whom Christ died are perishing. {ChS 121.1}


If the lay members of the church will arouse to do the work that they can do, going on a warfare at their own charges, each seeing how much he can accomplish in winning souls to Jesus, we shall see many leaving the ranks of Satan to stand under the banner of Christ. If our people will act upon the light that is given in these few words of instruction, we shall surely see of the salvation of God. Wonderful revivals will follow. Sinners will be converted, and many souls will be added to the church.--Testimonies, vol. 8, p. 246. {ChS 184.1}


A wrong conception of the character, the perpetuity, and the obligation of the divine law, has led to errors in relation to conversion and sanctification, and has resulted in lowering the standard of piety in the church. Here is to be found the secret of the lack of the Spirit and power of God in the revivals of our time. . . . {FLB 326.4}


Before the final visitation of God's judgments upon the earth there will be among the people of the Lord such a revival of primitive godliness as has not been witnessed since apostolic times. . . . The enemy of souls desires to hinder this work, and before the time for such a movement shall come, he will endeavor to prevent it by introducing a counterfeit. In those churches which he can bring under his deceptive power, he will make it appear that God's special blessing is poured out; there will be manifest what is thought to be great religious interest. . . . {LDE 158.2}


In setting aside the claims of the law of God, the church has lost sight of the blessings of the gospel. Bible conversion and sanctification,--a radical change of heart and transformation of character,--is the great need of the churches of today. Revivals in which men become members of the church without real conviction of sin, without repentance, and without acknowledging the claims of the law of God, are a cause of weakness to the church, and an occasion of stumbling to the world. {4SP 306.1}

"The interest awakened by his lectures is of the most deliberate and dispassionate kind; though this is the greatest revival I ever saw, yet there is the least passionate excitement about it. It seems to take a deep hold on the main part of the community. What produces the effect is this: Bro. Miller simply takes the sword of the Spirit, unsheathed, and lays its sharp edge on the naked heart, and it cuts; that is all. Before the edge of this mighty weapon, infidelity falls and Universalism withers; false foundations vanish, and Babel's merchants wonder. It seems to me that this must be a little the nearest to apostolic revivals of anything that modern times have witnessed." {RH, November 25, 1884 par. 14}

I have never seen a revival work go forward with such thoroughness, and yet remain so free from all undue excitement. [She is referring to the revival that occurred among Adventists at South Lancaster, Massachusetts, at meetings that started Thursday, January 10, 1889 and lasted about two weeks.] There was no urging or inviting. The people were not called forward, but there was a solemn realization that Christ came not to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance. {3BIO 427.3}
The honest in heart were ready to confess their sins, and to bring forth fruit to God by repentance and restoration, as far as it lay in their power. We seemed to breathe in the very atmosphere of heaven. Angels were indeed hovering around. {3BIO 427.4}

I should clarify that the second to last quote was written by one of William Miller's contemporaries, not Ellen White. Ellen White witnessed Miller's preaching and took part in that movement. But her last quote describes a revival among Adventists 45 years later that she felt was an even more impressive manifestation of the power of God. There are strong similarities between the two though.

I was trying to find a quote by Ellen White on revival where she says something to the effect that the final revival will start in the east. My memory is quit fuzzy on it, but I have a vague memory that it implies the final revival that fulfills the prophecy of Revelation 18 of the angel that lightens the whole world with the glory of the gospel will take root in the New England states. I could have that wrong. Does anyone remember that or have it handy?

One of the reasons I believe that's correct is that New England has been the location of the greatest revivals on this continent since the pilgrims first settled the thirteen colonies. The first and second Great Awakenings were centred there, and the South Lancaster Adventist revival took place there. She says the final revival will take place in many locations but it seems like the fire of the Holy Spirit ignites first in New England.

Another aspect or characteristic of all genuine revivals since the Reformation I've noticed recently is humility. In all of the great revivals people returned to the views of Luther and Calvin on the limits of human strength. The people achieved a more balanced view on the role of the will - that our wills are not helpful unless they are first submitted to God, and only divine power can enoble and refine them. This was also a characteristic of the South Lancaster revival.

So are you saying that that a revival is better the more solemn it is?

If the next revival among SDA is to start in the east, well, nowhere in US is a geographical area Id think about when you say east. East would be somewhere in asia.

There is an Eastern part of the USA just as there is an Eastern part of Canada, which I should know as I live in the Eastern part of Canada.

Which is of course relevant if we are speaking of an all-american event. If we are speaking about an worldwide event, that would change the perspectives somewhat. But maybe this is just an american experience Mark is talking about, in which case my east coment is of course invalid.

The final revival is global, but normally a revival starts in some location first and spreads to others. Often it takes stonger hold in the original location(s). Jerusalem is historically a centre for revival as well as apostacy. We should expect to see both there too, possible at or about the same time as the early signs in N America. Perhaps a large part of Geneva will repent and seek God too, who knows.

How did you arrive at Geneva and N America?

There seem to be some references to the rising of the sun - which is in the east.

Japans self identity is the land of the rising sun...

Peace from our Lord Jesus Christ to you all!

I want to thank God for making me reach here! Am very glad that the Lord's people can come for fellowship here and prepare their lives unto the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ! Great relief.

Thank you Brother Mark for the contribution on revival! Thanks to all the others who have given a comment or two! Mark is talking about a general awakening of the Lord's people! Am concerned that others here have driven the point to a particular palce! The message is found in acts, 17:23-31 God has tolerated our paths but now calls evry man every where unto repentence because He has appointed a day for judgement.

Two nations, have been very significant in scriptures for revival. One America- for the defense of christian fredoms all over the world and England whom the Lord has used to defend, preserve God's Truths which was kept unknown to the people over the dark ages. Because of this awakenings, the beast suffered a would that wwould not be healed. People all over the worl have been preached to and Judgment is right at our doors. I will draw you to the writting of the Kings James version Bible which has been the pillar of all God's truth and meaasge to the entire world. There are now many translations that have hidden the facts and other doctrines that continue to keep people in darkness. These are the ones that provide the healing of the Beast's wound, which Paul stell us about, 2Thesselonians 2:3-7 " Le no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed......Vs. 7 For the mystery of iniquity does work already; only he who now lets will let; until he be taken out of the way. KJV. This is where the Lord calls for greater wisdom which we should all be praying to get.

There is a self seeking attitude among different Christian groups to be okay at the current situations, they preach only on prosperity, and things of this life! but the mystery of iniquity has taken many captives including even the very elect! It will be very supprising to teach any body here! These forces that have taken away our God given gifts, of love, care, teaching, meakness have been far planned. our school systems, university, now last to our daily worship, all the enmy has strongly waged war here. Science has changed much of the christian family to live only, but a lukeworm church.

Today there are many deviations from the SDA Doctrine many SDA denominations: This seperation means that, some thing is being done which we must all be concerned about! The doctrines of the Papacy which we must have learnt about, have penetrated in many of the christian families today and many are blinded because they greatly welcome them with many reasons to! The Lord solemnly warns, " if a man worships the Beast or receives its mark, the same "shall" drink of the wrath of the wine of the Lord! This is not going to take place in North Ameriac or Englan or Japane or africa alone, but the entire human race! (World)

So, Revival calls for an awakening in Worship, fellowship, doctrine, Spiritual gifts, remembering the widows, orphans, etc. This is only when our Lord will come and say unto us, "I was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty and you gave me a drink.

May God bless you all for the fellowship and Spiritual reminders!

Richard,
Kiboga Uganda.

1. Urgency

"revival of true godliness among us is the greatest and most urgent of all our needs."

2. We are very low on "oil".
Oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit.
God is more willing to give us the Holy Spirit, than are parents willing to give good gifts to a child.

3. What we must be to receive the Holy Spirit who revives and reforms us.

--In order to have a thorough revival among us, there must be a converted ministry. There must be confessions, repentance, and conversions.

There must be much prayer.

The Lord is far more interested in our fitness for His return, then we should be about timing His return.

Something needs to happen before Christ returns. Our greatest need must be met. A revival -- the out pouring of the Holy Spirit.

The coming of the Holy Spirit precedes the second coming. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment. John 16:8.

But notice something we learn from the first Pentecost in the book of Acts. The Holy Spirit did not fall on the world, it came upon a small group of believers who were praying and seeking the Lord in earnest. The Holy Spirit is sent to the church and works through these believers to reach the world.

What brought on this baptism of the Holy Spirit from which these disciples emerged empowered and equipped to witness to the world?

Revival -- maybe the problem is that we are passively waiting for some great power to take hold of us and expect then to be "on fire" Christians -- when the revival needs to come BEFORE God's Holy Spirit in the latter rain can fall upon us in full measure of power?



We need to give more serious consideration to the command of God to come out of the world. Sometimes we think "being in the church" is enough, but sadly there is a great deal of the world within a great many inside the church -- indeed within the church itself.

Are we different from the worldling? Our speech, our dress, our habits of life, the themes of our conversations? A lot of us don't like being different, we'd rather blend in.

Yet, when we consider the issues before us, how could we ever stand up for truth when the world is against that truth, if we are so uncomfortable being "different"?

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

The ultimate objective in the plan of salvation is to transport us bodily, literally, out of this world, away from evil and sin, and take us into another world, a heavenly world, into the association of holy beings.

So the question to ask ourselves is --
Will I miss the worldly pleasures and life style?
Am I longing to be in the company of holy beings?

Probably the most important question--
Do I today, live in the presence of God?

"Enoch walked with God; and he was not' for God took him"

Greetings,

One of the things I have noticed since becoming an Adventist is that we love to talk about what we need to do, as if the talking about it would help. It's as though we hope to convince others to do that which we should be doing ourselves, as if trying to convince others makes me righteous. I have seen this tendency in myself. What I have realized though is that when I allowed Christ to revive & reform myself, it had a much more profound effect upon others than just my words.

You see a revived person has an unseen influence upon all that he/she meets, for the Spirit of Christ permeates the entire person, radiating out to all he/she comes into contact with. As Ellen White said, revival & reformation is an individual work. It doesn't come from the 'church', nor the 'GC', but from being one with Christ. We've been given two messages which accomplish revival, the 'Laodicean' message message & the 'Christ our Righteousness' message. The 'Laodicean' message calls us to individual repentance, which includes a personal surrender of our entire being to live by every word that proceeds from God, both Scripture & SOP, and entire crucifixion of self & the world. The 'Christ our Righteousness' message tells us to allow Christ to fill our entire being leading us into all righteousness. Unfortunately both messages were rejected and thus cannot lead us to revival & reformation no matter how much we pray for it.

There will be no revival until we believe what God says about us, that in our religious life, in our 'playing church', we are wretched, miserable, poor blind & naked, lost in the light If & when that sinks in, we will fall at His feet in humble repentance for our 'religiosity' and open the heart so He may enter & abide in us, leading us into all righteousness.

May God bless & keep us in Christ,

Pilgrim

There was a serious warning given in 1893 concerning this situation.

"Today a large part of those who compose our congregations are dead in trespasses and sins. They come and go like the door upon its hinges. For years they have complacently listened to the most solemn, soul-stirring truths, but they have not put them in practice. Therefore they are less and less sensible of the preciousness of truth. The stirring testimonies of reproof and warning do not arouse them to repentance. The sweetest melodies that come from God through human lips -justification by faith, and the righteousness of Christ- do not call forth from them a response of love and gratitude. Though the heavenly Merchantman displays before them the richest jewels of faith and love, though He invites them to buy of Him "gold tried in the fire," and white raiment" that they may be clothed, and "eyesalve" that they may see, they steel their hearts against Him, and fail to exchange their lukewarmness for love and zeal. While making a profession, they deny the power of godliness. If they continue in this state, God will reject them. They are unfitting themselves to be members of His family." 6T 426.4

NSPete,

Good quote, now will any of us 'do' it? It seems almost impossible to get professing christians to admit that their 'religiosity' is not christianity, that they may be in delusion as to their true condition before God. What is the common response to being told of our wretched condition, 'no no', I am really rich & increased with 'spirituality' and don't need to repent, for the church tells me so. Yes, but Christ is not in agreement with the Church. I wonder who is right.

The first step to revival is confession to Christ that he is right, I am in delusion, I have been playing church yet didn't realize it & now I am asking Him to lead me to repentance. Without this type of communion with Christ, there can be no change, no abiding in Christ, no revival & reformation. A church that needs revival cannot lead anyone to revival. Revival comes from Christ, not the church.

Pilgrim, how do we get this message to take hold amongst the people of God? It seems like an individual work right now as there are no signs that a great revival is forthcoming. James White had this to say in Life Incidents pg. 212

"I think no man can go with his thoughts about him into one of our churches without feeling that what hold the public worship had on men is gone or going. It has lost its grasp on the affections of the good, and the fear of the bad. It is already beginning to indicate character and religion to withdraw from religious meetings. I have heard a devout person, who prized the Sabbath, say in bitterness of heart, "On Sunday it seems wicked to go to church." And the motive that holds the best there is now only a hope, and a waiting.

NSPete,

II understand your concern for I to have seen no signs in the Churches. I can only look to Jesus, who sought to revive the church when He was here. There were no visible signs that anything was working, but quietly, behind the scenes, He was raising up and training His Apostles outside of the church corporate, beyond the reach of corporate influence & control. When they were ready, revival began. So I believe it is happening now, Christ is raising up men/women from the plow to be revived & lead the revival, not the church. When the Apostles were in training, they could see no revival work taking place. yet it had begun in them. Today the people are looking to the church for guidance & revival instead of Christ. This won't change until it becomes obvious that the church has left Christ. Then Christ will lead them to those leading the revival.

So it is with us my brother, we are in training, yet maybe not realizing it. Keep looking up, for when we are ready, real revival will come. Don't expect to see it in the churches though, for it won't come from there, only when it seems that the church is about to fall, that they have joined the popular churches, will the real wheat be seen & the wise virgins awake & see the need of revival. We are getting close to that time so be patient, soon we will be basking in the latter rain & praising God for revival..

God bless,

Pilgrim7 desplus67@gmail.com

This is my hope and I hope the prayer of all who are claiming to followers of Jesus in these days. As the SOP says,
"Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time comes for it to be given with greatest power, the Lord will work through humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to His service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them." GC 606

May we all be humble servants willing to do as the Lord leads through His Spirit and may the work be finished soon. I know I am tired of sin and can only imagine how the Lord feels who sees it all.

Amen brother,

'Christ our Righteousness' will triumph, swelling to a 'loud cry'.

Charity,

I really appreciate your concern with revival for Christ cannot return until it happens.

I believe the east refers some what metaphorically to the "Son of Righteousness" arising with healing in His wings. This happens globally as Christ raises up a remnant to go beyond religion, and storm the gates of heaven for transformation of heart & character. As we can see it is easy to wander from the real message of the characteristics of revival. Revival means a recovery of life to the dead. A man may physically die for the moment, his heart stop beating, but he may be revived, brought back to life by CPR. As Christ said "your brother was dead, but now is alive again"

A church or people who need revival are spiritually dead, disconnected from God, but not from religion. When a church dies, it still continues on as though it were alive. In fact a dead church spends most of its time & energy trying to convince its dead members that it is still alive and "increased with spiritual goods" rather than admit that it is dead. Thus any revival must always begin with an honest confession of its deadness due to a separation from God.

Christ makes our condition of deadness clear in the "Laodicean message".

Rev 3:15? I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot.?
Rev 3:16? So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.?
Rev 3:17? Because thou say, I am rich, and increased with goods (spiritual life), and have need of nothing; and know not (are deceived to the fact) that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked (This is a description of spiritual death):?

Thus, the first step in revival is confession to God that we are spiritually dead, separated from God, yet still playing church as though we were spiritually alive. This is Christs evaluation of our condition, no matter what we may do, we may convince most of the church members that we are not "lukewarm", but we will never convince Christ. If the church is right, then Christ is wrong, which can never happen. This type of honesty & confession , the humbling of the heart before God, is not natural or pleasant to the one playing church. Yet this will lead us to the next step in revival, repentance. Christ can never lead us to repentance until we confess the truth to Him, that we are dead. This is the one thing that the corporate church will not do, thus any pursuit of revival will fall short. Thus it becomes an individual responsibility.

Rev 3:18? I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou may be rich; and white raiment, that thou may be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness does not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye-salve, that thou may see.?
Rev 3:19? As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.?

You will notice that Christ says we must "buy of Him" these blessings which He offers, not just "accept" them as a free gift as religion teaches. I think I will believe Christ here for this for He knows best. Yet this transaction does not include money or works nor even faith at first, but repentance. The surrender of all to Christ, a decision to be crucified with Christ, & raised in Him a "new creation" reborn in the very image of Christ Himself. He now takes possession of the heart and leads one to live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God. This is the price which me must pay in order to receive these gifts.

COL 116 - In the parable the pearl is not represented as a gift. The merchantman bought it at the price of all (the cost of salvation) that he had. Many question the meaning of this, since Christ is represent-ed in the Scriptures as a gift. He is a gift, but only to those who give themselves (completely), soul, body, and spirit, to Him without reserve. We are to give ourselves to Christ, to live a life of willing obedience to all His requirements (every word that proceeds from the mouth of God including Spirit of Prophecy). All that we are, all the talents and capabilities we possess, are the Lord's (for He already bought them on the cross), to be consecrated to His service. When we thus give ourselves wholly to Him (our part of the transaction of the ?New Covenant?), Christ, with all the treasures of heaven, gives Himself to us (to dwell in us, His part of the transaction). We obtain (Christ) the pearl of great price. (He gave Himself to & for us, there-by purchasing us, so we in turn give ourselves to Him to complete the transaction because He already paid for us)
Salvation is a free gift, and yet it is to be bought and sold. In the market of which divine mercy has the management, the precious pearl is represented as being bought without money and without price. In this market all may (117) obtain the goods of heaven. The treasury of the jewels of truth is open to all. "Behold, I have set before thee an open door," the Lord declares, "and no man can shut it." No sword guards the way through this door. Voices from within and at the door say, Come. The Savior earnestly, lovingly invites us: "I counsel you to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich." Rev 3:18.
The gospel of Christ is a blessing that all may possess. The poorest are as able as the richest to purchase salvation; for no amount of worldly wealth can secure it. It is obtained by (covenanting or agreeing to give to Christ our) willing obedience, by giving ourselves to Christ as His own purchased possession.

We will never know the true characteristics of revival until we are revived ourselves. I did what I share above and Christ revived me, entering my heart & filling me with all the fullness of God. Prise His Holy name!

May God richly bless you in your quest for revival,

Pilgrim

I am totally amazed that there is virtually no interest in revival & reformation.

Could it be that it is just not doctrinal enough. We seem anxious to debate doctrine, but revival is an internal experience with Christ himself, leading to resurrection from spiritual death.There is so much more to truth than just debating doctrine. We are to become the truth.

Without this revival, we will not make it to the kingdom. Even the GC s pushing for revival & reformation.

May God help us to awake to righteousness for He is even at the door. That which we have been preaching for over a hundred years is now at hand and only the revived wise virgins will be ready for Christ when He returns.

God bless,

Pilgrim

People are interested in revival and reformation a whole lot more than you seem to realize!!!


But these posts are basically "debating doctrine", they are not really discussions.
Putting out arguments as to what "revival" means.
Arguing about what "buy of me" means.
Assuming one is revived and others aren't revived.
Those are all theological doctrines.

But the most problematic is the pulling away from church.
That seems to under lace so many of your posts --
The impression that attending church is actually wrong -- a bunch of hypocrites, pretending.


I'm glad you realize that the GC is urging reformation and revival!
That acknowledgement is a step in the right direction.





In real life -- we are struggling to simply, literally REVIVE our church and bring people together again, to worship and pray together. A step that comes before any "church repentance" and church spiritual revival could even take place.
This is not some theological thing, it is literal. After all this commotion of Covid-19, lockdowns, and everyone being isolated in their homes every Sabbath. Sorry but computers, though better than nothing, don't replace people worshipping together, to pray together, encourage one another, etc. Computers only convey information, the human aspect is missing. The Spirit of corporate worship is gone.
Sure our church is open again -- but only a small percentage attend, and they with enforced masks and social distancing, everyone sitting in their own corner in the church. A sense of fear pervading, (not godly fear, but fear that someone might carry a germ) There is a real fracture -- an everyone on their own -- type of feeling.
Satan has scored big with this Covid stuff.

He's brought in a situation 100% at odds with the upper room experience of the disciples just before the early rain fell. They were together of one accord in one place worshipping and praying when the Holy Spirit came.

The Bible says "forsake not the assemble together"
EGW urges God's people to "press together, press together" in unity, in Christ.

I admire those "Babylonian" as you call them, churches who are standing up and saying government has no right to stop us from coming together and worshipping and praying. We must obey God rather than man. Though I don't agree with their theology in a lot of things, they do have something our fear driven churches that make sure we stay fearful, masked and distanced, lack.

Thanks for the reply,

My friend i is not I who call them Babylon, but Christ. Yes that is a doctrine, describing their condition in the eyes of God and calling them to come out.

Admire them if you wish, but Christ is not doing so. I am not here to convince you of anything but to share what God says. If you wish to be out of harmony with God on this, it is your right & prerogative

Here again you seem to impugn my motives and attach to me your own opinions of what I share. This is not how honest discussion is handled. Everything I share is from the Scriptures & SOP.

It is not my job to convince you of anything, I just share with you God's point of view, the Holy Spirit will convince any who are open to it.:

Contrary to what you assert, I go to church and have not discouraged any from doing so, but in going to church I seek to help others to see the truth and connect with Christ the leader of the faithful in the church and learn to hear His voice and follow Him & not man.

EW 237 - As the churches refused to receive the first angel's message, they rejected the light from heaven and fell from the favor of God. (became fallen churches) They trusted to their own strength, and by opposing the first message placed themselves where they could not see the light of the second angel's message. But the beloved of God, who were oppressed, accepted the message, "Babylon is fallen," and left the churches.

4SP 232 - When the churches spurned the counsel of God by rejecting the Advent message, the Lord rejected them. The first angel was followed by a second, proclaiming, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." [Revelation 14:8] This message was understood by Adventists to be an announcement of the moral fall of the churches in consequence of their rejection of the first message. The proclamation, "Babylon is fallen," was given in the summer of 1844, and as the result, about fifty thousand withdrew from these churches.

It cannot get much clear that this, It is God who calls them Babylon, I just share the message of Christ.

Can it really be that you don't understand the 2nd Angels message. I realize that it kind of disappeared from Adventism sometime after 1900. I just figured that those who claim to give the 3 angels messages would understand the 2nd Angel. No wonder Christ has not returned.

Even though we may disagree, I still love you brother and will not judge your motives.

Pilgrim

Referring to your statement
"Here again you seem to impugn my motives and attach to me your own opinions of what I share. This is not how honest discussion is handled."
I think you have done that in the post above, so the statement may apply both ways.

I don't remember asserting that you don't go to church.

Now I confess, I may be mixing up some of your comments with that of another poster, Pete --
You both came about the same time and both seemed to have similar postings about the Adventist church falling and the GC fallen and all that. The sudden double dose of that in post after post, seemed rather like an agenda to draw people out of the church. I mean, who wants to belong to a "fallen church" -- isn't the 2nd angel's message "Come out" of the fallen churches?
I am a Seventh-day Adventist because I believe this church has the true message (even if there are a lot of problems and false movements in the church) it's still the only church I know that has the true message, and in my understanding, attacking the church in the name of "connecting people to Christ as their leader" just is not the way to connect people to Christ.

I have no problem with exposing or warning about PROBLEM areas in the church, but a systematic attack on the church as "fallen" or "in apostasy" which is basically the same thing, is not the way to do that. (A church in apostasy, and a lot of apostasy being in the church are not the same thing)

Also,
Yes, I do admire many in the other denominations. I've met some real Christians from other churches.

Just because we do not BELIEVE their doctrines, thus do not become members of their denominations, does not mean we can't admire and love them, as many of them are honest Christians, who love the Lord and want to do His will, often showing more fruits of the Holy Spirit than many Adventists.

Are we "faithful witnesses" when go about disparaging the people in other denominations. I think not. Nor is the 2nd angel's message a call to denounce the people in those churches, and to consider them less than ourselves.

MOST of God's people are still in those churches. The second angel calls them God's people.
Babylon means "confusion" and yes, their doctrines on many points are a confused, and misleading deceptive tangle. They need to come out of that confusion. But we need to treat the people with respect, we can admire their goodness, and honesty, or how can we share our beliefs with them?

And yes, I do think their stand against the government's actions of implementing the authority of government over the right to worship, was a brave thing. It was NOT a "babylonian" stand but a true protestant stand, even if their doctrines are "confusion" and babylonian.


Yes, the time will come when the faithful will leave those churches and follow Christ more fully.

But what is interesting in your comments is how you refer back to 1844 --
When the mainline Protestant churches rejected the Advent message, which led to the rejection of the sanctuary message, which led to the rejection of the Sabbath message, which led to other slides away from true Protestantism.

Aren't those all DOCTRINES which the Adventist Church teaches, and which I hear you calling "religious philosophy" which seems to imply that the preaching of the doctrines as wrong.
Why are you speaking against evangelists who are teaching and giving Biblical bases for the doctrines?
Aren't those the very things that the "Babylon" churches rejected, that caused them to become part of Babylon?

Aren't those doctrines the very things they need to hear?
They, at least the ones that faithfully attend their churches, already love Jesus, they already believe in the cross.

Now I realize your focus is on repentance, and you seem to feel repentance is no longer taught
-- But isn't it precisely those Adventist doctrines that call for repentance? --

The problem, when repentance takes a back seat, is when those Adventist doctrines are no longer taught. When they are properly taught, it definitely includes repentance and coming to Christ Our Savior, High Priest, Lord, Creator, and King.

I guess it depends where you look in Adventism. If you look for the thorns, you will find lots of them. If you look for Christ centered Biblical doctrine and the story of Redemption, you will find it.

Look for the good, I know it's hard when there is so much confusion and evil, but the good is still there, and Christ is still leading people within Adventism, and yes, even people in other churches.
We will be astonished, when we see all the ones Christ has saved, which we may have thought would never be part of the redeemed.

Revival is a personal thing.
It involves a personal encounter with Christ and is sustained only in a personal walk with Christ.

People who look to the church for their "revival" are indeed looking to the wrong source.
How long do revivals last when done in "mass"? A powerful preacher comes and people are hugely stirred to seek cleansing and salvation, emotions run high, it looks and feels like revival, people confess their sinfulness, they pray, but once the preacher leaves and regular duties of life return, it all reverts back to life as usual. Everything had been done on the current of emotion brought alive by the preacher and the crowd, somehow it had not taken solid root within the individual lives.

So where is the fault ?

Don't look to the church for revival, revival is NOT a corporate thing, it is an individual sustainable relationship with Christ.
It is not a high emotional state, too many look for a high emotional state and think this is revival. Sure there is emotion in fellowship with our Savior, and it can be nice, but it is not the evidence or the sustaining factor of revival. Don't look for emotion as the evidence.

This is life eternal, to know God and Jesus.
Revival comes from seeking and KNOWING GOD, knowing truth, letting go of self centered, self powered religion, acknowledging the sinfulness and our absolute helplessness in our own self, it is accepting Christ's righteousness, giving Him our dirty rags, and accepting His justification, and seeking a continual walk with God, a continual commitment to live in the will of God. It is sharing with others, that they too may know and experience revival by seeking God with all their heart. Thus it grows.
The church can only be revived from within, by individual lives committed to Christ, it will never revive from the top down.
Don't expect the GC leadership to bring revival, all they can do is give information, set out policies for church standards, try to keep the church together, BUT they can't revive anyone. Don't expect them to do what they can't do. So take the information that is good, leave the information that is not good. Revival doesn't come by accusing the GC for not producing it.

For revival -- only the Holy Spirit can bring revival. Only in Christ is their new life. All heaven stands eager to bring us revival. And it's up to the individual to seek after the things of God and accept and follow the things of God, or live in accordance to self.

Amen "sister". I am beginning to see that you are a "tiger", no I'm sorry, a "Tigress" for truth & God.

God bless & keep,

Pilgrim

Just a word from God in SOP regarding the use of the will in overcoming sin, since it was alluded to in a previous post.

COL, 332 The heavenly intelligences will work with the human agent who seeks with determined faith that perfection of character which will reach out to perfection in action. To everyone engaged in this work Christ says, I am at your right hand to help you. (333)
As the will of man co-operates with the will of God, it becomes omnipotent. Whatever is to be done at His command may be accomplished in His strength. All His biddings are enablings.

Thus if we are all Christians, then our will in no longer powerless in doing God's will, but all powerful. We need no admonishment that we cannot do anything required. on our own, for we are never on our own, for Christ said He will never leave or forsake us. Only those who are not converted would need such admonishment.

now for the support of Scripture:

Php 4:13? I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.?

You see the true Christian has all the power of God to do what God requires.

Love in Christ.

Pilgrim

Just read through this thread and agree that revival and reformation is a very important part that is needed to inspire people to proclaim the message of the three angels.

Last week's Sabbath School study focused on the importance of Revelation 14.

Concerning the issue of "the will".

Our will must be submitted to the will of God.
Jesus Himself (the perfect Man) prayed "Not my will but thine be done".

It is not our will that becomes omnipotent. It is always God's will that is omnipotent.

It is God's plans that are all powerful, and when our will is in SUBMISSION to follow His will, God works through us to bring to pass HIS WILL.

Yes, He is omnipotent, and He will strengthen and impower those who submit their will to HIS Will.


Truth ALWAYS submits to God Who is an omnipotent power OUTSIDE of self, God's people place their will UNDER God's will, they never lean upon self.

Yes, we always need to remember, that we cannot do anything required on our own, for as soon as we think we can do it and don't seek to place ourselves under God, forgetting to seek His strength, we have left Christ out of it. Even though Christ said He will never leave or forsake us, when we step out on our own to do what we think God wants, and that somehow our will is now "omnipotent", we have left Him out.

Just like a loving parent with a two year old.
It is cold outside the child is REQUIRED to wear a sweater. It is the will of the parent that the child wear a sweater.
"ME DO IT" the child says, and puts the sweater on inside out and backwards.
The parent lets the child follow his own will, but doesn't leave or forsake him. It was not the will of the parent that sweater be inside out and backwards however.

Now the analogy is incomplete, because the two year old will grow into adulthood. They do not depend upon the parent all their life.

But we NEVER grow into godhood.
We never become "all powerful" we are always dependent upon God who is all powerful.
We must always reach out with determined faith for that perfection which is in Christ. Remember that perfection is IN CHRIST, not in us.

Yes, as we submit to Him, and seek Him, He will implant in us divine characterizes of His divine nature, changing our characters into a similitude of his character, but we do NOT become divine.


We are constantly in danger of slipping away into our own understanding, into self reliance, relying on our power, instead of in Christ's power -- in need of revival.
Our strength is in daily communion with our Savior and dependence upon Him.
One of the greatest dangers is in thinking we now have the power.
It is Christ Who is all-powerful. He has NOT merged His identity with us, He is a Divine Being, a powerful Divine Being outside of us, Who works in our hearts and minds, when we invite Him into our lives to do so.

Come to Me, Jesus calls, Buy of Me .....
Repent of your self sufficiency.
I will come into your life in an intimate way, only then can you overcome.
For I will give you the faith you need, I will supply the righteousness to cloth you, I will open your eyes to see spiritual things,
And finally you will sit with Me on My Father's throne.

1 Cor. 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.


Be careful --
The church, at least a large part of it, KNOWS it needs revival and reform.
And yes, revival includes thorough repentance. There is no revival without repentance.
The church knows it needs it desperately.
Whether people in the church will embrace it is a different question.


The negative results in the Laodicean message is for those who think they don't need it.

Do you think you are wiser than Christ or Ellen White who wrote this, again I Quote:

COL, 332 The heavenly intelligences will work with the human agent who seeks with determined faith that perfection of character which will reach out to perfection in action. (Now I know that the "Omega" does not agree with this) To everyone engaged in this work Christ says, I am at your right hand to help you. (333)
As the will of man co-operates with the will of God, it becomes omnipotent. (she definitely says the will of man becomes Omnipotent for the omnipotent one supplies the power) Whatever is to be done at His command may be accomplished in His strength. All His biddings are enablings.

I believe you should take this up with the Holy Spirit who revealed this to her. Christ is definitely not happy with your denunciation of His truth here.



I would be very cautious in calling Ellen White a liar. It is obvious that your immersion in the "Omega" has kept you from understanding the concept of "Christ in you the hope of glory". When Christ dwells in the repentant believer, all His power is there also, making the will of man as powerful as Christ, therefore omnipotent in doing His will, for Christ who lives in him is omnipotent. To agree with this would undercut the main supports of the "Omega" for then man would have no excuse to sin, but be required to go on to perfection which the "Omega" denies even though Scripture & SOP .both teach & support it.

Pilgrim

A pure and noble life, a life of victory over appetite and lust, is possible to everyone who will unite his weak, wavering human will to the omnipotent, unwavering will of God. {MH 176.3}

We must always place our "weak wavering will" under the omnipotent unwavering will of God.
It is never our will that is omnipotent, it is God's will that is omnipotent.

Everyone must decide for themselves who is reading EGW aright.

BUT NO -- our minds will never be omnipotent --
the quest to "godhood" is the very essence of the alpha and the omega.

Now, especially now, we must NOT TRUST our senses, not lean on our own minds and understanding, but earnestly seek truth in scripture and in our Savior -- our salvation is in Christ as we submit ourselves to him.

There is no mystical infusion that makes our minds omnipotent when we repent of sin, and invite Jesus into our lives. Yes, repenting of sin, and accepting Christ 's forgiveness and inviting Him into our lives is of absolute importance. It is justification -- without which we are lost.
But justification (being reckoned as righteous) is not sanctification.
Justification is our acceptance into the school of Christ.

THE transformation (sanctification) comes as we look to Jesus, praying and searching the scriptures, and in faith stepping out to follow Him in all He reveals to us. We dwell with Him, and He dwells with us. We learn more and more of Him. BY BEHOLDING we become changed. By filling our minds with truths gleaned from His Word, and asking the Holy Spirit to open our understanding to the Biblical truths -- applying them into our lives --
As we dwell in HIS PRESENSE He changes us -- yes, burning out sin, burning out the rebellion, and nurturing characteristics of goodness, faith, temperance, patience, love, fitting us for heaven, where we can physically dwell in His glory and love.

The DIFFERENCE --
1. (The quest for godhood) takes the texts "Christ in me" literally. Thus they can say their minds become "omnipotent" since Christ is omnipotent.

2. Whereas sanctification is dwelling with Christ and Christ dwelling with us. Two distinct beings. Christ does not become us, and we do not become Him.
Yet as we dwell with Him, we are encircled with His Spirit, our minds filled with thoughts of Him, we are changed by His power, we live FOR HIM, empowered by Him, always clinging to Him, for without Him we can't do anything, but with Him we can fulfill His will for us!

REPENTANCE AND REVIVAL

Did you know tomorrow -- September 26, 2020
has been set aside as a national and global day for repentance and revival by the Christians in the USA?


From the "Return" webpage of these men, we read:


Sound good?

Do we agree all this is needed? --Turn to God, pray, repent, first our own repentance, then actually live in revival, pray for revival of our nation.

But wait---

Today many Christians are praying for repentance and revival. And we should be praying for repentance and revival. However, in the book Great Controversy we read that before the final outpouring of the Holy Spirit occurs, there will be a counterfeit revival that Satan will introduce to deceive the world. So how do we tell the difference between the false revival and the true?

How will we tell?



An answer to the "how will we tell" if what appears to be a great general revival is in fact a counterfeit -- is often answered with -- "they won't forsake their sins". That of course is true, a false repentance and revival leaves people in their sins.
BUT it won't be as obvious as most think. The deceiver works from opposite angles. We have seen our nation plunge into all sorts of open immorality and evils and call it "tolerance" and "love" "freedom of choice" "just a different life style" etc. Many are appalled calling out for a "return America to a Christian nation status:.

Prophecy reveals that there will be reformation! You can count on it. (Maybe or maybe not this year, but it will come) But that reformation will be societal, not of the heart. Some of the reforms Adventists will be happy about and probably will even support -- after all, Adventists supported the temperance reforms back in the 19th century. However, Sunday will be a BIG "reformation" point for the diverse but combined religious reformers. And Sunday will also open the eyes of many who did truly repent and seek after God, to leave the fallen churches and join with those that uphold ALL God's commandments, for Sunday exaltation shows the false revival is not in tune with God's commandments.

Conclusion:
Repentance and revival ARE absolutely IMPORTANT.
We need that repentance and revival that units us with our Savior, Redeemer, and Lord.
It's true that we don't have much more time left.

However, don't just say "Amen" to everything when people come with a repentance and revival appeal.
It is truly troubling when they also have in their message a --( don't spend so much effort, so much time learning or teaching doctrine)

Do we know HOW Jesus will come again, can we prove it from scripture?. If we don't we will be deceived because some pretty awesome, realistic looking and sounding counterfeit Appearings" are planed for the future.
Do we know WHY we set apart the 7th day as a special day to worship? ?
What would we say if Peter, Paul, John, Elijah, or even Ellen White showed up and started urging us to unite and support the big reformation? Do we have enough solid Biblical confirmation to stand, even when all our senses tell us it's good, just go along with it?

While Christ is always with us to strengthen and keep those clinging to Him, yet He will not make the decision for us.

So we have an "Omega" prophet among us who thinks to change what God has revealed.



If you would read my post carefully & prayerfully, you would realize that Ellen White did not say our minds, but our faith.

In your post you admit that you don't understand Christ in us, the hope of glory.

Just a few Scriptures which seem to confirm what Ellen White wrote.

Mar 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If you can believe (this is the Greek word meaning have faith, not just intellectual belief) all things are possible to him that believes (has faith).

If all things are possible, that seems to mean omnipotent.

Mat 17:20 And Jesus said to them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say unto this mountain, move hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Now lets see, if nothing is impossible to me when I have faith, that again seems to mean that my faith was omnipotent.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. (strengthens my faith with His omnipotent power)

So it would seem that Scripture backs up Ellen White here, not the "Omega" prophet.

Below is one quote among the 76 quotes I found from Ellen White:

AA 476 "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17. Through the power of Christ, men and women have broken the chains of sinful habit. They have renounced selfishness. The profane have become reverent, the drunken sober, the profligate pure. Souls that have borne the likeness of Satan have become transformed into the image of God. This change is in itself the miracle of miracles. A change wrought by the Word, it is one of the deepest mysteries of the Word. We cannot understand it; we can only believe, as declared by the Scriptures, it is "Christ in you, the hope of glory."

You see I know where you are coming from, for the "Omega' has not the power of God to make their faith omnipotent, so the only alternative is to deny & reject this truth. You see in the "Omega" the power of God is lacking, so all they are left with is lengthy dissertations, seeking to deny a miraculous Christianity.

Pilgrim

I'm afraid that there is only one way to read this quote from Ellen White.



This is a very clear, definitive statement which cannot be read any other way except by those who don't understand the truth or personal experience of repentance & conversion and seek to justify their unbelief or lack of faith. The "Omega"s" foundation is thus built upon sand and will be swept away when the storm & tempest of the time of trouble arives.

Pilgrim.

@Pilgrim

Are you saying that you have omnipotent faith?

Daryl, I really appreciate honest questions.

Faith in Christ is omnipotent for He is omnipotent. Thus anyone who has real faith in the omnipotent Christ has omnipotent faith. If you have real faith faith in Christ, then you have omnipotent faith, a faith that can move mountains which would be omnipotent. If as God says, ones will becomes omnipotent when united with the will of Christ who dwells within, then that would be the result of a faith that is omnipotent. You see the true repentant believer not only has faith in Christ, but has the "faith of Christ" which is omnipotent. Remember the faithful who endure to the end, "keep the Commandments of God and have the "faith of Jesus" not just faith in Jesus. You see our faith in Jesus is authored by Christ, yet He is to finish our faith by developing His faith in us.

CTr 365 - The work of the Holy Spirit is immeasurably great. It is from this source that (omnipotent) power and efficiency come to the worker for God; and the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, as the personal presence of Christ to the soul. Any person who looks to Christ in simple, child-like faith is made a partaker of the divine nature (if we have real faith, then we have been made a partaker of Christ?s divine nature living in & through us which would include His omnipotent power) through the agency of the Holy Spirit. When led by the Spirit of God Christians may know that they are made complete in Him (complete means complete, nothing lacking, they have all of Him, including His omnipotent faith & power)...

I understand that this may seem new & quite shocking to those weaned on the "Omega", which has no concept of the power of God and His dwelling in the repentant believer. What Jesus said to the Pharisees applies to the "Omega" as well, Mat 22:29? ... Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.?

If one"s faith is not omnipotent, then it is not faith in the omnipotent Christ, and thus is vain, just a worthless "intellectual philosophy" which satisfies those who are not indwelt by Christ and "made partakers of His divine nature".

You see real faith makes one a partaker of the divine nature internally, just as Peter says, which means they have the personal presence of Christ Himself dwelling in their heart and nothing is impossible to them just as Christ says. If your faith is not omnipotent, then Satan just laughs at you and knows that he already has you sealed in unbelief. This statement is generic in nature, not meant as a criticism of you personally. for you seem generally interested in truth.

You see in dwelling primarily on doctrine, which is only "religious philosophy" without "omnipotent faith", the "Omega" has failed to lead any to repentance that produces "omnipotent faith". read again Revelation 3 as to the 3 things which Laodicea lacks, faith, righteousness & the Holy Spirit.

May God richly bless you,

Pilgrim

The ones that will be swept away are the ones who look INSIDE for omnipotence.

Those who will stand are the ones Who cling and depend upon a PERSONAL GOD ( in a personal BEING) OUTSIDE themselves Who they follow where ever HE LEADS. They depend upon HIM. They are living in Christ and Christ lives in them (not through some biological merging) but through daily, hourly communion with Him, (prayer, bible study, directing our thoughts to Him) etc)

It is NOT a literal biological thing, but a binding connection that is sought DAILY.

The literal BIOLOGICAL idea was the very root and substance of Kelloggs, ALPHA, and Waggoner's departure from TRUE faith and sound doctrine.

And now we are being urged to accept the OMEGA -- which is NEW AGE DOCTRINE.

What we are seeing taught here really isn't "repentance" --
Real repentance is NOT a one time thing after which a Spirit enters and takes over. Repentance is a continual experience, which God's Holy Spirit (the third PERSON of the One Godhead) impresses on our minds as He points out ever new areas in our lives where we need to grow more like Jesus.

The term "partaker of the divine nature" is twisted to mean the person becomes divine, omnipotent.
No -- a "divine nature" is a NATURE (spiritual character in contrast to the carnal nature) that Christ develops IN us. The things we once loved we now loathe, and the things we once loathed, we now love -- HE CHANGES US to be more and more like Him in CHARACTER, not in evolving into mini gods.

The OMEGA lies close to truth in its terminology, but there are HUGE differences.
The true faith lays hold on Jesus, bringing Him into every aspect of their lives, walking and talking, depending, obeying HIM, building character for eternity..
The false, puts mystical meanings to all the terms in scripture to mean god is literally inside and now what we do and say is "divine".

Wow

Of course it is not a biological thing. How could anyone conceive of such a thing. It is a spiritual union in which the Spirit of Christ enters the heart and dwells there by faith. It does not make the one indwelt by the Spirit a God, but Godlike, possessing the same Holly Spirit in his heart. Thus it is Christ in you the hope of glory..

You sure seem confused. Christ does not lead His followers from without,l ike a puppy dog, but from within, through a still small voice of the Spirit.

Here again you place yourself contrary to Scripture & SOP, which you don't seem to mind.

The divine nature is the Spiritual nature of Christ. It is miraculously implanted in the repentant believer.

John 14:9? Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father??
14:10? Believe thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? (now only a fool would think that the Father was biologically in Christ) the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwells in me, (spiritually) he does the works.?
14:11? Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 14:15? If ye love me, keep my commandments.?
14:16? And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;?
14:17? Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world (or the Omega) cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.?
14:18? I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.? (in the form of the Holy Spirit - so Christ dwells in us spiritually just as the Father dwelt in Christ spiritually)

You see the Laodicean message shows Jesus knocking on the door of peoples heart, seeking entrance which they have not allowed & which you resolutely deny.

Its becoming more & more obvious that you do not understand the spiritual aspect or dimension of the indwelling of Christ. How could you for you obviously have never encountered it in the "Omega" for "intellectual philosophy" cannot comprehend spiritual realities. ?So I will leave you to your confusion and pray for you.

Pilgrim

Actually it is your interpretations that are confusing as to what you believe.
.
I know in Whom I believe, and He is able!!! --
It's definitely not anything in me.

Christ does not lead His followers from without, like a puppy on a leash -- of course not.
That would destroy the power of choice.

BUT
Christ is a PERSON, not some influence we look to inside ourselves.
He is a person outside of us that we invite INTO our lives. We invite Him into every aspect of our lives, talking (praying without ceasing) with Him, seeking His will. Reading His Word, the scripture to learn ever more about HIM.
Yes, He speaks to our minds --
That still small voice -- speaks to our minds. He isn't IN our minds.
But He speaks to our minds -- flashing thoughts into our minds as we read scripture and pray for understanding. He is there -- beside us.

He leads us, as a PERSON, Who loves us with tender love, and we walk with Him in trusting love.

I'm glad you realize Christ and the Father weren't literally inside each other!
That's a step in the right direction.
So what does it mean --

Christ was fully dependent upon God the Father while He was here on earth.
Christ and the Father are two distinct Beings, not literally "inside" each other, but in full connection.
Christ wasn't exercising His own "omnipotent" power while He was a man on earth, but depended completely upon the Father. This was part of the plan -- it was by connecting with a power OUTSIDE Himself, that Christ lived a perfect life.
Everything Christ did and spoke was according to the Father's will. Through night long prayers, and constant communication with the Father, Christ lived a sinless human life, (not by omnipotent internal power) but by depending upon the Father's omnipotent power.

The faith of Jesus, during His earthly life was a faith of complete trust in the Father, NOT looking within Himself (even though for Him, He had what we do not, for under the cloak of His humanity was His divinity) but we do not have Divinity within, but we can "lay hold" of Christ's Divinity and unite our lives with Him.

We are to "partake of the Divine Nature" in the same way as Christ partook of the Father's Divine nature.
We are to "lay hold"
"God reaches for the hand of faith in us to direct it to lay fast hold upon the divinity of Christ,"
"So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us."
" And how this is accomplished, Christ has shown us. By what means did He overcome in the conflict with Satan? By the word of God. Only by the word could He resist temptation. "It is written,"
"By every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" are we to live. When assailed by temptation, look not to circumstances or to the weakness of self, but to the power of the word. All its strength is yours. DA 123

Here are some more scriptures for you to deny & reject with you human wisdom.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that you have sent me. 17:22 And the glory which you gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 17:23 I in them, and you in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and have loved them, as you have loved me.

Here we have the Omega?s favorite verse to promote health, yet they totally miss the entire point of the Scripture, what blindness.

1Cor 3:16 Don?t you know (which you admit you don?t) that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 3:17 If any man defiles the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. (now here is some really good advice for you, although it is really a command) If any man among you seem to be wise in this world (think you are wiser that God & His Word), let him become a fool (realize that he/she is a fool), that he may be wise. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world (as promoted by the Omega) is foolishness with God. For it is written, He takes the wise (those who think they are wiser than God & His Word) in their own craftiness (presumed wisdom which is indeed foolishness). 3:20 And again, The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise (those who think they are so wise), that they are vain (worthless, foolish).

Above we have God's opinion of your scriptural wisdom

2Co 6:16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? for you are the temple of the living God; as God has said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people (thus the only people who are God?s people are those in whom He dwells ? only those with Christ in them through the spirit, have the hope of glory).

I am most anxious to see how you desecrate the word of God given above. Remember God is recording all of your unbelief and rejection of truth in His book which will meet you in the judgment. You see a temple is for the dwelling of God. He dwells within His temple not without. You see to reject God dwelling in His human temples is really a subtle attack on the Sanctuary, which I realize you will not understand.

So in your infinite wisdom, have at it.

PS: Daryl I am still looking for your response to my answer of your question.

Pilgrim

I do not deny scripture --
I deny YOUR twist to those scriptures which seems to increasing be urging the pantheistic view.


There is a huge difference in the pantheistic view of "god in us" and the Biblical understanding -- which does NOT cause people to look inside themselves to find God, but to reach out to God and invite Him into their lives, and submit to His leading.

John 17:20-21
--Christ is one with the Father, but Christ and God are two distinct personages. Read the prayer of Christ in the seventeenth chapter of John, and you will find this point clearly brought out. How earnestly the Saviour prayed that His disciples might be one with Him as He is one with the Father. But the unity that is to exist between Christ and His followers does not destroy the personality of either. They are to be one with Him as He is one with the Father (RH June 1, 1905).

Think of Christ, the adored of angels, in the attitude of a suppliant. He was a mighty petitioner, seeking at the hands of the Father fresh supplies of grace, and coming forth invigorated and refreshed, to impart His lessons of assurance and hope. Look at His kneeling form, as in the moonlit hours He pours forth His soul to the Father. {HP 76.2}

It is a law of the mind that it gradually adapts itself to the subjects upon which it is trained to dwell. . In the reverent contemplation of the truths presented in His Word, the mind of the student is brought into communion with the infinite mind. Such a study will not only refine and ennoble the character, but it cannot fail to expand and invigorate the mental powers.--PP 596-599 (1890).


1 Cor. 3:16 Don't you know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
It is with our minds and "hearts" that we worship and communion with God. But too often our minds are filled with worldly thoughts, turmoil and with trivial ideas. We need the power of God to cleanse our minds that they be receptive to His voice.

It is to our minds that Holy Spirit speaks -- if they are dulled by sinful practices, the connection is broken and He can't get through.

The body is the only medium through which the mind and the soul are developed for the upbuilding of character. Hence it is that the adversary of souls directs his temptations to the enfeebling and degrading of the physical powers. His success here means the surrender to evil of the whole being. .--Ministry of Healing, p. 130. {CME 46.1}

Sinful indulgence defiles the body and unfits men for spiritual worship. He who cherishes the light which God has given him upon health reform has an important aid in the work of becoming sanctified through the truth and fitted for immortality. But if he disregards that light and lives in violation of natural law, he must pay the penalty; his spiritual powers are benumbed, and how can he perfect holiness in the fear of God?--Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene, p. 10. {CME 46.2}

A mind that is connected to the things of God, filled with the truths of scripture, and responsive to the Holy Spirit will be enabled to develop a godly character. (partake of the divine nature) and shine forth the glory of God.

And yes -- that is walking with God, as Enoch walked with God., not looking inside and thinking our minds are now omnipotent. It is ALWAYS reaching out to GOD and inviting Him into our lives.


Yes, we are to be LIVING STONES in the temple of God, but this does NOT replace the truths of the heavenly sanctuary, and our heavenly High Priest's work there -- without the work in the heavenly sanctuary there would be no human "living stones" in the temple (God's church) in which Christ is the corner Stone.

Wow

I guess God should have consulted you before He revealed the Scriptures to the Gospel writers. None of what you say negates any of the Scripture I have quoted.

Just a little fact which you are not aware of concerning Pantheism, It taught that God was in every man, without repentance & conversion, thus the point you promote to justify your rejection of these Scriptures is without merit or truth. If you would just consult the Holy Spirit, He would lead you into all truth. You see all Scripture is truth, not just some of it. You cannot use Scripture to deny Scripture, although that is what you are doing, it is a bogus argument and any with the Spirit would readily recognize it.

You see to be an expositor of Scripture, you must accept & believe all of it, for that is what the Holy Spirit does, He leads into all truth, not just some of it. When one denies any truth of Scripture, they deny Christ who is the truth. To teach a Christ who is not all truth, but just some of the truth, is to preach a "false Christ".

None of the human wisdom you have presented so far would convince any true believers of your perspective, for that is just what it is. It will only confirm those who already agree with you to reject truth. You see we are being judged on our acceptance or rejection of truth, which God sees as a reception or rejection of Christ. Every one here is being judged on what they do with the truth.

Here is another Scripture to confuse you further":

1Cor 2:12? Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.?
2:13? Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.?
2:14? But the natural man (unconverted by the Omega) receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.?
2:15? But he that is spiritual judges (discerns) all things, yet he himself is judged of no man (who is not converted).?
2:16? For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.?

I realize that most of the things I share, most have never heard of them for the "Omega" never teaches them. You will never see them in the Sabbath School quarterly, or any Official church publications, for they expose the "Omega" for just what it is, the last apostasy prior to the return of Christ.

Pilgrim

Here"s another Scripture for you to reject:

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might (that would be omnipotent power for it is His power) by his Spirit in the inner man; (which would be the heart which is inside us) 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 3:18 May be able to comprehend? the breadth, length, depth, and height; 3:19 And know (as to possess) the love of Christ (which is in us), which passes knowledge (cannot be known by those church members who have not the spirit of Christ dwelling within), that you might be filled with all the fullness of God (filled with Christ who is all the fullness of God). 3:20 Now to him that is able to do exceedingly, abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power (of the indwelling Christ) that works in us, (not outside of us)

It would seem that you just do not understand the abundance of His power, which I fully understand why you do not.

Pilgrim

The line of truth lies close to error.
Scripture can be twisted into error when it is not comparing scripture to scripture.

Pantheism is ERROR no matter if the person has previously come to Christ in repentance or not.
Justifying pantheism, (God in us, looking inside to find god) because one has at some point repented of sin, does NOT excuse the grave error of Pantheism. Waggoner drifted into pantheism after being a strong witness for God.

Salvation is by reaching out to Christ, yes, in repentance and turning from sin, accepting His forgiveness, His pardon, and inviting Him into every aspect of our lives. It is surrendering to HIS will, but it is not a "takeover" of the will. It is NOT merging into godhood. It's placing our will, under His will. "Not my will, but thine be done".

A person's thoughts are not thoughts that God's mind (which supposedly is now in them) is thinking inside them. That's making the expression too literal.
Though our thoughts are to be gleaned from study and prayer and communion with God. The more we KNOW God personally from searching scripture and prayer, and seeing Him work in our lives, the more our minds are changed to reflect on the things of God.

Christ wants to CHANGE us --
He died to justify us (forgive the repentant sinner of our sins and give us a clean slate to live for Him)
He also wants to sanctify us -- wants to change our characters, our thoughts, our desires, our actions. He doesn't control us, taking over our minds and emotions -
He calls us -- woos us, He wants US to fill our minds with thoughts of Him and truth, though Bible reading, study and prayer. The Holy Spirit (if we respond) can help us bring scripture to mind, to see them in deeper meaning, and see ever new truths in the Word and nature etc. , He speaks to our minds, and the more we listen the more He can empower us- His will for us is to respond to Him freely.
He doesn't want to turn us into robots.

2 Peter 1:3-11

3 His divine power (Yes it is HIS power) has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, How? through the knowledge of him who called us In John 17:3 it says "TO KNOW HIM is life eternal." to intimately know HIM,
For those who respond, God's divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness. All of this is available to us when we came to know God (through faith in Christ). knowing God, the source of all life, is the only path to being fully equipped to live as God calls us to live.
And He has called us to his own glory and excellence,
Jesus sets the standard for what is good and glorious, and calls for us to follow/ He fully equips us to make the journey. But we have a choice about whether or not we'll really use those spiritual tools. This requires effort on our part. The "equipping" comes in the form of promises.

4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.
Promises that lead us to escape (escape by repentance, turning to Christ for forgiveness and cleansing, and growing the fruits of a godly nature)

5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith the faith that KNOWS God, responds by making an effort to supplement the faith with virtue, moral excellence and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
God gives all the resources, yet we must chose and claim the promises and make an effort. The greatest effort however is TO KNOW JESUS, to intimately know Him. These ALL flow as we come into a vital Knowing (relationship) of our Lord Jesus Christ
8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The biggest 2 letter word in the Bible ?IF?, it's not a magic take over, we are morally responsible beings. But again that ineffectiveness stems from not really living in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
We must remember that we are bought with a price, we are His cherished treasure, and when we KNOW HIM all He has done and is doing we can see beyond the present into eternal realities.
10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; Again the word IF -- If we keep ourselves in that intimate relationship with Christ, KNOWING about Him. and KNOW Him in personal daily fellowship of study and prayer it will keep us from falling.
11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

IN OUR HEART

Of course the word "heart" does not refer to the literal organ. It refers to our love or desires.
Non spiritual expressions often refer to "heart" in connection with love and desire. Two people fall in love and say "He has my heart" They may part for a season assuring each other that "I will keep you in my heart". ETC.
When true love is shared by two people, it CHANGES them! Their thoughts are constantly about each other, they WANT to do things that please the other. They'll give up things in order to make the other happy.

When we say Jesus is in our hearts -- that's what happens in a greater way. It is LOVE for HIM, and for His ways, that is in us. It is desire for Him and righteousness that is in us. And the more we get to know HIM, the more we love Him and want to please Him and be happy WITH Him, and be more and more like HIM.
And this results by KNOWING Him.

LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU
When we read the whole passage in PHil. 2, we find that this doesn't mean Christ takes over our minds, but rather as we get to know Christ and what HE DID,our minds need to change to think of things more and more like He thinks -- we are being urged to THINK like Him.
The more we KNOW Him the more we will think like HIM!

The power of God isn't forced on us, it doesn't "take over" God doesn't wrest the controls from us,
It isn't like one preacher's parable of a car driving down the freeway and a big freight truck comes right at him -- so the driver jumps in the back seat and asks Jesus to take the wheel. No, Jesus doesn't take the wheel when we give our lives to Him, instead He puts His arm around us and tells us which way to steer.
I physically experienced this in my car many years ago, when an RV pulled right across in front of me. I thought it was curtains for me. But a voice shouted "turn sharp right", then "straighten the wheel"," turn sharp left". I obeyed, and found myself safe on the road on the other side -- There was no one else in the car. The voice did NOT come from inside me, the way of escape didn't even seem possible to me. It confirmed God's presence to me.
He does change us from inside out, when we invite him into our lives. Without Him we can't do anything.

As we get to KNOW Him, we are changed, the things of the carnal nature (carnal character) are put "to death" through the working of the Holy Spirit who brings all these truths to our minds, and the things of the divine nature (character) take their place.

JOHN 5:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every [branch] that bears fruit, he prunes it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, you [are] the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done unto you.
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples.
15:9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you: continue in my love.



Notice -- we abide IN Him (but we are not literally in Him) we are to be connected to Him, receiving from Him, in communication, drawing from, clinging to...

A great sermon on dwelling with Christ, which is to be in a very close, connected, sanctifying relationship with our Lord and Savior, which changes us and produces fruit.
(WITHOUT the "god inside us" slip into new age)

The power of Abiding, by Doug Batchlor

Yes, the sap that is in him, that would be His very nature flows through us, that would be in us, It cant flow through us unless it is in us. If we are connected to Him, with his very nature flowing in and through us, then we are joined to Him, and one with Him.

Time for more human reasoning.

Yes, that is human reasoning, adding one's words and how they understand it--
I see your reasoning as leading into the "new age" type of thinking. That is what Waggoner did as he drifted into "pantheism".
There is a fine line in the terminology, but the difference is huge.

The "sap" is spiritual life giving power, not a character.
"The sap of the vine, ascending from the root, is diffused to the branches, sustaining growth and producing blossoms and fruit. So the life-giving power of the Holy Spirit, proceeding from the Saviour, pervades the soul. AA 284

1. The true -- we always depend and seek after Christ HIS WORD, knowing it is NOT us. Never depending on self and looking inside for the power and strength. Knowing we must "abide" stay connected, seek after, a PERSON that is NOT us. He gives the power and the strength when we are connected to Him.

2. The counterfeit believes Christ is inside, thus seeks Christ inside and thinks they have all power, and all strength within themselves.

Just a study on 1 Corinthians 2:10-16

2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
God has revealed things to us, that is to the ones searching for His truth.
It is the Holy Spirit that reveals them, for the Holy Spirit searches, that is, understands, all the deep things of God. He knows the deep things of God and reveals them to the ones searching for His truth.

God and the Holy Spirit are far above anything or anyone that shares their understanding of truth.
As Isaiah writes in Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

2:11 For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God

To help us understand what he is saying, Paul points us to a human comparison. Your own spirit (that is your thoughts, feelings, emotions, motives, of the real you, etc) no other human really knows or understand. You alone, among humans know what is going on in your heart and mind.
An inadequate comparison -- yet the point made is that only the HOLY SPIRIT knows the deep things of God.
Through the Holy Spirit God reveals --

2:12? Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.?
How did "we" the apostles, get the divine truth which they proclaimed and wrote in what is now our scriptures?
Not from the "spirit" of the world. What spirit animates and hugely influences the whole world?
Ephesians 2:2 "the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"?

It is the HOLY Spirit that reveals the deep things of God. Divine Truth is received from the Holy Spirit who knows all the deep things of God and Who is called "the Spirit of truth".

2:13? Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2:14? But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.?

Again we see that the Holy Spirit TEACHES.
Paul is not depending on human wisdom, he is depending upon the Holy Spirit Who brings truths to his mind to compare spiritual truths with spiritual truth, to lead him into truth.

Notice also that there are at least three different "spirit" references.
1. The Holy Spirit, who has full knowledge of all the deep things of God.
2. The spirit of this world, mainly satan's kingdom of self centered living.
3. The spirit of man -- which both the Spirit of God and the spirit of the world are seeking to draw. It's the battle for our minds and hearts. The spirit of man naturally responds to the spirit of this world, but when he, with his spirit (his heart and mind) in response to the Holy Spirit, seeks after God, the Holy Spirit reveals, teaches etc. the things of God -- deeper and deeper.
The natural man, whose spirit is comfortable responding to the spirit of this world, and refuses to respond to the Holy Spirit, sees the things of God as foolishness (they don't support the selfish drive that is the key ingredient in the "spirit of the world".

2:15? But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man
The spiritual man, is the one who is responding to the Holy Spirit, and now can investigate and value things. Testing things to see if it is truth. Through scripture (which was inspired by the Holy Spirit) and through dependence upon the Holy Spirit, the spiritual person searches for truth, and sorts out false teachings and movements from true..
Connected to the Holy Spirit, they begin to correctly discern God's will.

However, they will not be understood correctly by others.
Thus we read in Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in what you eat or drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath day

No ruling power that would compel man to obey the dictates of the finite mind should be exercised.

2:16? For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.?

Who knows the mind of God? We need to go back to verse 10 (at the beginning of this post) for the answer.
"the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God." It's not us that knows the deep things of God, we only know what the Holy Spirit has revealed to us and us to understand -- it is not yet perfect understanding, for even in eternity we will be learning more about the deep things of God. The things of God are much higher than our finite minds can grasp.
We constantly need to realize this so that the Holy Spirit may instruct us further. We are to have the "mind of Christ" -- Philippians 2 tells us what it means. "Have this mind in you which was also in Christ"
For He who was God in the highest sense, became human and placed Himself as a humble learner under God the Father, was lead by the Holy Spirit, and humbled Himself even unto death.

The Holy Spirit is the key to understanding Gods Word, and if we don't allow it to guide us, we stumble.

Quotes posted by Charity in the OP of this thread
To help us find characteristics of true revival and reformation as well as false revivals.


What can we glean from the above:

TRUE REVIVAL
--hunger and thirsting after God, earnestly seeking His blessing
--asking in faith
--feeling great dependence upon God
--personal caring for friends and neighbors to find Christ and truth
--denouncing the world
--self denial to follow soul testing truths
--understanding the perpetuity and obligations of God's law
--exalt the justice and benevolence of God
--highly estimate the grace which provided an atonement for sin.

FALSE REVIVAL
--emotional excitement
--feeling God's special blessings are being poured out
--great religious interest
--turning away from soul testing truths which require self denial
--mingling true with false
--neglect of the testimony of the Bible
--wrong concept of perpetuation and obligations of God's law
--divorce God's justice from His benevolence
--under estimate the grace which provided an atonement for sin
--sink God's benevolence into a sentimental concept
--seeking favor of the world

The list above are "fruits" to help us identify between true and false religious "revivals".

However, a revival is not a list in which we can check off the items, and consider ourselves 'revived". A true revival is a heart, mind and soul commitment to surrender all to Christ, and follow His Word, led and empowered by His Holy Spirit.

An example from history that has been sited happened between two men, each of whom initiated two powerful movements and do show the importance of "fruits" in evaluating a revival.

D'Aubigner in "History of the Reformation" pictured the experience of both movements (the reformation and the counter reformation) by describing the experience of their two key leaders -- Luther and Ignatius Loyola.

The experience of both men was very similar in their early years. Both were deeply sensible of the multitude of their sins. Both were seeking reconciliation with God, and longed to have the assurance in their hearts of God's favor. These two notable figures of the sixteenth century, both had entered religious orders seeking to leave the world behind and follow God and both would become founders of two spiritual powers which warred and countered each other for four centuries, yet at one point, in the beginning, they were brothers in their religious experience.

But from that point the two experience different revivals and followed entirely different paths.

Ignatius instead of recognizing that his remorse and guilt for sin was to lead him in repentance to the cross to find forgiveness and cleansing, came to believe that the remorse that was plaguing him did not come from God but from satan and he resolved never more to think of his sins. His resolve fell back upon himself.
Luther, on the other hand found the scriptural truth of righteousness in Christ. Luther turned toward Christ for salvation, and Bible for his inspiration.

Both found a mentor in their early days. Luther met Staupitz with the Bible in his hand who pointed him to Christ. Ignatius met an old woman, a visionary, who, instead of proclaiming remission of sins to the repentant, instead predicted visitations from Jesus. Thus Ignatius did not seek truth in the Holy Scriptures; but imagined in their place immediate communication with the world of spirits. Visions came erelong to confirm Ignatius in the conviction at which he had arrived. He began to live in ecstasies and contemplation.
"These numerous apparitions had removed all his doubts; he believed, not like Luther because the things of faith were written in the Word of God, but because of the visions he had experienced. 'Even had there been no Bible' says his apologist, 'even had these mysteries never been revealed in Scripture, he would have believed them, for God had appeared to him'. Luther, on taking his doctor's degree, had pledged his oath to Holy Scripture, and the only infallible authority of the Word of God had become the fundamental principle of the Reformation."

**

Luther was not perfect in all his decisions and understanding, his was not yet "a revival of primitive godliness as has not been witnessed since apostolic times", yet he was on the right path and his submission to Christ and the Word, enabled God by the Holy Spirit, to do a great work through Luther to restore knowledge of the truth of righteousness in Christ.
Ignatius was led by another spirit to counter the work of the reformation.

True Revival

Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:26.

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil. Proverbs 3:5-7

"Most professed Christians have no sense of the spiritual strength they might obtain were they as ambitious, zealous, and persevering to gain a knowledge of divine things as they are to obtain the paltry, perishable things of this life. The masses professing to be Christians have been satisfied to be spiritual dwarfs. They have no disposition to make it their object to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness; hence godliness is a hidden mystery to them, they cannot understand it. They know not Christ by experimental knowledge". {CCh 186.1}

True revival is not an exciting, ecstatic feeling that floods over a person for a few minutes. Though overwhelming gratitude and love for our Savior is part of it. But if a person then returns to their daily life and continues in their carnal pursuits and habits, simply relying on that feeling they experienced on that one particular day as evidence they are now saved and not too worried about their "little" sins, then it was not revival at all, but just an emotional moment, and they are still dead in their sins..



True revival awakens a deep and growing trust in God. A recognition that His ways are true and righteous and good. Revelation 14 combines this deep trust with a call for us to fear Him Who made us. God, Who loves us with an everlasting love, is not to be trifled and bargained with. Spiritual awakening is revealed in the persons life as their desires change from self pleasing to desiring to please and bring glory to God. We live in a dangerous, doomed world. A world that is heading straight into utter disaster and destruction. A loving God is NOT going to pacify us in our evil habits. Sin is a serious, destructive force which God will wipe out entirely. He is not going to simply smile as we continue to cling to our sins. God wants to CHANGE us, so we can live in a sinless world! Yes, we are to come as we are to Him, for we cannot change ourselves, but God loves us too much to leave us in our sins. He wants to REVIVE us! A revival is a spiritual awakening.

Ephesians 2:1-4 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ

Yes, revival is an awakening from the deadly control of the spirits of disobedience, unto a NEW LIFE . Human nature tends to be lazy and sluggish in the face of our moral responsibilities, and Satan knows how to take full advantage of this to keep us in a spiritual stupor that guarantees us as his prisoners heading for eternal death.

A true revival is a resurrection from a carnal nature to a nature that follows the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:5-7, 11-14 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,...
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh? for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


The need to repent of our sins is central to experiencing the revival, experiencing this resurrection from being dead in our sins, to being alive in Christ.
But repentance isn't something we can just "do" because it's necessary. It is something we are led to, by the Holy Spirit as we begin to grasp our need for salvation. To genuinely repent we first need to come to the cross and understand what happened there so we can be raised from our sins unto new life in Christ.

What are we missing when there is no real revival?

Zech 4:6 Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

You have not, because you don't ask. You don't receive because, when you do ask, you ask for the wrong things. James 4:2


If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13.

ASK

Mathew 7:7-8 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asks receives; and he that seeks finds; and to him that knocks it shall be opened.

The Holy Spirit is
Christ?s greatest gift for His followers?the gift which brings all the other gifts with it.

Before returning to heaven, Jesus gave this valuable gift of love to His disciple.
Valuable gifts are not to be pushed or forced on someone.
They are given to people who express their desire for this gift and appreciate it enough to genuinely want and ask for it.

Yes, we want revival, but there is no genuine revival without the Holy Spirit.
Jesus must live in our hearts through the Holy Spirit for spiritual life to be revived in us.
Revival isn't just changing a few habits. Revival is BEING changed by the power of the Holy Spirit to become more and more like Jesus.

The drawback for many people is a hesitancy of surrendering self to our Savior. People want to hang on to their self-sufficiency.
God will accept nothing less than unreserved surrender.
The true Christian is in constant communication with Christ. He lives in fellowship with Christ. As we study scripture, and focus on Christ the Holy Spirit transforms the minds and hearts of all who are earnestly longing to have their will conform to the will of Christ. To become more and more Christlike is their desire.
We cannot use the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is to lead us. Through the Spirit God works in His people "to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
But again the problem is that many people do not submit to this. They don't have enough faith in God to trust their lives to Him. They want to manage their own lives. They are pushing the Holy Spirit away, saying, this far and no further into my life and choices. This is why they do not receive the heavenly gift of the Holy Spirit that leads to thorough repentance and newness of life. .

To move toward revival, we need to ASK, in prayer, ask for the Holy Spirit to give us a new heart and mind, Don't ask just once, but plead for it.

We also need to SEEK

Jer . 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Deut. 4:29 But if thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
1 Chro. 16:10 Glory in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
16:11 Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
1 Chro. 22:19 Now set your heart and your soul to seek the Lord your God.
Matt. 6:33 Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you.

What does it mean to seek the Lord with all our hearts?

It means to search with an honest, sincere, humble attitude. To desire to know and experience His presence. It means to search scriptures with a longing to get to know God better. Too often people search for God with a divided heart. Even the disciples, though outwardly they had left all for Jesus' sake, had not in heart ceased to seek great earthly advantages for themselves. The carnal person wants to follow Jesus on one hand, and please Him, but it's not with the whole heart, he isn't surrendering his whole life to Jesus. That means that his heart is divided, wanting to live according to God?s will and his own wishes simultaneously. But that doesn't work. Ultimately it's a plea to self govern and simply get some good ideas from God to do so. But when the heart isn't committed to this search, diligently, thoroughly seeking Christ , it just doesn't bring revival.

ASK, SEEK,
SURRENDER

?The Lord is willing to do great things for us. We shall not gain the victory through numbers, but through the full surrender of the soul to Jesus. We are to go forward in his strength, trusting in the mighty God of Israel. {RH, July 1, 1884 par. 8}
There is a lesson for us in the story of Gideon's army. The ten thousand men who chose to follow Gideon were a small company compared with the vast and powerful army they were to meet. But the Lord would not work with them; for their trust was altogether too much in their own strength and skill. ...
God must be sought on your knees; you must go forth to meet the people through the power and influence of his Spirit. {RH, July 1, 1884 par. 10}

The natural instinct is to "self govern".
But we are to "die daily".
That is, every day surrender our lives to Christ to do His will.

Another key to revival is
DON'T FORGET -- REMEMBER

One of the reasons Israel was forever falling into unhelpful and destructive patterns is because they FORGOT. They forgot how God had led them in the past both spiritually and physically.
The more we allow the problems of life, or pleasures and temptations to be the main focus of our lives, the more prone we are to forget how God has provided, led, and blessed us in the past.

The first step in this is simply taking God for granted, taking His blessings for granted. and thinking we have managed on our own, and start looking to self more and more as the source of solutions and power. The world tells us to just "follow your heart", while scripture tells us the heart is deceitful above all things!

Ecc. 12:1 Remember now thy Creator
Numbers 15:39 Remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, that ye seek not after your own heart and eyes.

Deut 5:15 Remember you were a slave...and the Lord your God brought you out with a mighty hand, therefore the Lord commanded you to keep the Sabbath.
Ex. 20:8 Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy
Deut 24:18 Remember you were slaves.. and the Lord redeemed you
Deut 8:19 Remember the LORD thy God, it is He that gives you strength to get wealth
Deut 8:11 Forget not the LORD thy God, in not keeping His commandments

Psalms 63:3,6,7 Because thy kindness is better than life, I will praise Thee.. .My soul shall be satisfied...When I remember Thee...and mediate on Thee...because Thou hast been my help therefore in the shadow of Thy wings shall I rejoice.

Psalms 77:11-12 I will remember the works of the Lord, surely I will remember thy wonders of old, I will meditate also on all they works and talk of your doings.
Psalms 103:3 Bless the Lord, oh my soul and Forget not all His benefits (blessings)

John 15:20 Remember the words I (Jesus) have spoken
Acts 20:35 Remember the words the Lord Jesus, how He said....

"We have nothing to fear for the future except we forget the way the Lord has led us in the past, and His teaching in our past history." EGW

Repentance

Without repentance there is no revival and no true reformation.

Back in Jerusalem when Peter was preaching, the people asked .
?What shall we do?? The first word of Peter's answer was, ?Repent.? Acts 2:37. . At another time, shortly after, he said, ?Repent, ... and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.? Acts 3:19.

A lot of people are sorry for their sins, but it is not an abhorrence to their sin, but rather sorrow for the consequences. Their sinning caused problems and they are sorry about the problems, but not really feeling any sorrow over the sin itself.
People may do the right thing and/or say the right words, not because they actually feel sorrow about their sinful ways, but because certain things are expected if they want to be accepted in that group.
Consider King Saul. Yes, his words sounded like repentance when Prophet Samuel told him his kingdom would be taken from him, due to his disregard to God's commands. He was very sorrowful, but his sorrow was NOT over his sins, he thought his actions were necessary and the whole thing was unfair, but he was very sorrowful over the consequences, and spoke words that sounded like real repentance, but there was no inner change.

A person who is truly repentant experiences change in the inner person. The definition of repentance is a change of mind. That is the literal, etymological definition of the Greek word for repentance: meta?change; noeo ? to think.
But it's even more than an intellectual way of looking at things. True repentance changes the whole conscience of our minds and hearts. A new mind and a new heart is promised and this is implanted by the Holy Spirit, Who leads us step by step through repentance.
It is a process, for first the person needs to yield to the influence of the Spirit of God. It is then that the conscience will be awakened, and the sinner begins to see the true nature of sin itself and what it has cost heaven to rescue people from sin.

David is an example of genuine repentance. His sin was terrible, but it looked like he was going to get away with it. Then the prophet Nathan opened his eyes to the horror of his sin. What does David do?
He did NOT start making excuses for his sin. Though a king, he did NOT threaten, bribe or silence the messenger. David was overwhelmed with guilt and horror as the nature of sin became real in his mind. His repentance was sincere and deep. David saw the enormity of his transgression; he saw the defilement of his soul. He realized he had greatly dishonored His God as one entrusted with leading the people. He loathed his sin.

Some see guilt as only a tool of Satan, to be driven out of the mind at all cost. But guilt has it's place. It is to drive us to the foot of the cross in repentance! In his guilt David turned to the Lord, the One he had so miserably misrepresented, pleading for forgiveness. It was not for pardon only that he prayed, he wanted God to give him a pure heart and a renewed spirit. He longed for the joy of holiness?to be restored to harmony and communion with God. He longed for this from the depth of his heart.



When we come to God in such repentance we have His promise that He forgives. We no longer need to be under a cloud of guilt.


Like we said earlier, This is not a natural way of dealing with sin as the carnal mind will always seek ways to excuse sin. It is a process, for first the person needs to yield to the influence of the Spirit of God whose work is to draw us to Jesus. We can no more repent without the Spirit of Christ to awaken the conscience than we can be pardoned without Christ. It's really when we behold the Lamb of God on the cross, that we begin to understand something of the terrible nature of sin, and the wonder of redemption begins to unfold to our minds and the goodness of God leads us to repentance.

Reckon ourselves dead to sin.

As we seek, and ask for revival and respond to the Holy Spirit's leading. He will lead us to genuine repentance. As we contemplate what Christ has done for us, how He died upon a cruel cross so that He can forgive and save us, our hearts are softened and we see sin in its hideous reality. How can we continue in sin, when our sins have caused Christ to die?

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Do we believe this?

True repentance means sorrow that we have sinned against God,. Our sinning is against God. Our heart's cry is "Psalms 41:4 LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee. It means giving all our sins to Jesus, not just to grant us a legal forgiveness, but cleanse us from those sins. And the promise is that He will forgive. Jesus died the penalty of those sins, they no longer condemn us to death, we have been redeemed, justified! Declared righteous!

Now what? Do we simply enter a cycle of sin, repent, sin, repent?

How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:2) Before repentance and justification, we were trapped and "dead in sin". (Eph 2: 1) But God, in His grace, has freed us from sin. When we repented and gave it all to Christ, He justified us (just as if we had never sinned) Baptism symbolizes this! Dying to the old carnal nature we ?died to sin? and are alive in Christ. (Rom 6:2) It is therefore absurd to think that God's grace has given us a free license to sin; to live as if we were never justified and still in bondage to our flesh and fallen nature.

Romans 6: 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life....6 knowing this, that our old man {carnal nature} was crucified with Him, that the body of sin (all our binding sins might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 6:11 Likewise you also, [consider]reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Reckon and count as true our status in Christ. We are to reckon, believe ourselves as being dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. To reckon is an imperative to believe we have been rescued from sin and its condemnation, and clothed with robe of Christ's righteousness, freed from sin and its power, and in no way do we want to go back into that bondage again, thus we continually lay hold of our status in Christ.
We desire to be in that group pictured in Revelations 3:4 that walk with Christ and have not soiled their robes.

When we count it to be true in our lives, it changes the way we live. Reckoning is not a command for us to try to die to sin, but to consider ourselves dead to sin and alive to righteosness.

In simpler terms.
A person who has been pulled out of a hopeless, degrading situation, and believes they are set free, with a bright future full of acceptance, love and enablement, isn't as likely to go back to their old ways,
While a person who insists their hopeless, degrading situation is impossible to change, even if pulled out, is likely to sink right back in.

Jesus came, not only to forgive us of our sin, but to break the power of sin and set us free to serve Him.

What happens in the new birth is not a sudden sinless life, it is a complete change of thinking. There is still a battle, but it is a Spirit-empowered, persevering, clinging to Christ, hating sin, new being, We belong to Christ, no longer slaves to sin and we will, by the power of the Holy Spirit, though we may slip, keep sin from getting a grip on us again,

The new creation in Christ is a fighter. Paul said at the end of his life, ?I have fought the good fight? (2 Timothy 4:7), and he tells Timothy, ?Fight the good fight? (1 Timothy 6:12). And he means the fight for holiness, the fight to stay closely connected with our Redeemer and Savior,

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20.

We are warned that last great delusion is soon to open before us. Antichrist is to perform his marvelous works in our sight. So closely will the counterfeit resemble the true that it will be impossible to distinguish between them except by the Holy Scriptures.{DD 36.2} By their testimony every statement and every miracle must be tested.

We need a spiritual revival of full commitment to Jesus our Savior, a letting go of all worldly interference that draws away from Christ. And it will come for all who seek it. The Holy Spirit will be poured out, it is promised.

BUT

Before that revival comes to God's people.
Satan will bring in a great counterfeit! He will endeavor to prevent people from fully giving themselves to Christ in full obedient submission, by introducing a counterfeit.
He will make it appear that God's special blessing is poured out; there will be manifest what is thought to be great religious interest. People will be singing and praising God with enthusiasm. There will be much talk about love and unity, tolerance and peace. The protest or any conviction that one group has the truth while the rest don't have the truth, will not be tolerated. After all, people will say, isn't everyone receiving the spirit, whether they uphold God's commandments or not, whether they believe the Biblical testimony or not, whether they repent or whether they don't, aren't they all experiencing this religious emotional high?
In the counterfeit revival the emotion signifies acceptance, any protest against this is expected to die, all must embrace each other in love and unity based on the emotion.




Do we know the difference -

Worship is the issue in Revelation:

Worship God	False Worship
Rev. 14:7 Worship Him Who made heaven and earth.	Rev.13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast?
	Rev. 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev. 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for [thou] only [art] holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.	Rev. 13:15 And cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
	Rev. 14:11 they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.