From another post, which is discussing whether God uses Satan to do His billing, and if Satan's doing something is tantamount to God's doing it, the following question came up, which I thought would make for an interesting discussion.



I should point out that the purpose here is not a rehashing of our different views on the flood or Sodom and Gemorrah. There's already a thread set up for that purpose.

Well, is it different? And if yes, how is it different from any other example genocide?

A difference I see is that before A.D. 70, the Jews were explicitly and visibly God's people. They're being successfully attacked in A.D. 70 had different implications than it did in the 30's and 40's. But there were many similar principles involved.

When God commanded the Jews to utterly wipe out the Canaanites, to take possession of the Promised Land, did He withdraw His protection from the heathen and remove His restraining power from evil angels, and leave them to the control of Satan? Or, did God command holy angels to fight along side the Jews to annihilate the heathen inhabitants of Canaan?

GC 28
The long-suffering of God toward Jerusalem only confirmed the Jews in their stubborn impenitence. In their hatred and cruelty toward the disciples of Jesus they rejected the last offer of mercy. Then God withdrew His protection from them and removed His restraining power from Satan and his angels, and the nation was left to the control of the leader she had chosen. {GC 28.1}

Did God withdraw His protection from the Early Church? Did He abandon her to the unrestrained control of Satan? If not, how, then, do we account for why millions of Christians suffered martyrdom?

GC 39
Christians were stripped of their possessions and driven from their homes. They "endured a great fight of afflictions." Hebrews 10:32. They "had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment." Hebrews 11:36. Great numbers sealed their testimony with their blood. Noble and slave, rich and poor, learned and ignorant, were alike slain without mercy. {GC 39.2}

Regarding the comparisons between the destruction of Jews in AD 70 and the Holocaust, the following quote is insightful:

GC 35
The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. {GC 35.3}

Here she says “all the woes” that have plagued the Jews since her destruction in AD 70 can be traced back to her rejection of Christ and Christians. Is it possible that the Holocaust is but a continuation of the reaping that began in AD 70?

1.Regarding the genocide, that would be worth a topic of itself. God is not in favor of genocide. Originally He said He would fight for the Israelites. He never intended that they should have weapons. He didn't give them weapons.

2.Regarding why many died as martyrs, we have the story of Job to guide us.

3.Regarding the Holocaust, I don't think this is a continual reaping, as other groups have been the subject of similar violence.

God does not initiate evil, but He does allow it. Please consider the account given of Job.

Satan initiated the attack, and he carried it out (limited by what God would allow).
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(Job 2:3) And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

(Job 2:4) And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.

(Job 2:5) But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

(Job 2:6) And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
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In the case of divine judgments, such as Sodom and Gomorrah, these judgements are not evil, but just. Just as a sentence from a court is just, as the result of a broken law.

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God is not tempted to do evil, nor does He tempt another to do evil.

(Jam 1:13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

GC 35
The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. {GC 35.3}

This is written in the past tense, and the dispersion is not still ongoing. The "woes" spoken of in this quotation were the woes experienced by that generation of Jews who had personally rejected Christ as their messiah. Even if we were to credit the "to the third and fourth generation" principle to them it would not extend to the 20th century.
Just my opinion.

MM: When God commanded the Jews to utterly wipe out the Canaanites, to take possession of the Promised Land, did He withdraw His protection from the heathen and remove His restraining power from evil angels, and leave them to the control of Satan? Or, did God command holy angels to fight along side the Jews to annihilate the heathen inhabitants of Canaan?

TE: Regarding the genocide, that would be worth a topic of itself. God is not in favor of genocide. Originally He said He would fight for the Israelites. He never intended that they should have weapons. He didn't give them weapons.

MM: Are you referring to the hornets? “And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.” (Ex. 23:28) I am wondering, though, are “hornets” symbolic of Jewish “men of war”? The reason I ask is because God commanded Moses, a man thoroughly faithful and obedient, to wage war and do battle against their enemies and adversaries. In a different context, God said, “My wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword.” (Ex. 22:24) "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." (Rev. 2:23)

“Rise ye up, take your journey, and pass over the river Arnon: behold, I have given into thine hand Sihon the Amorite, king of Heshbon, and his land: begin to possess [it], and contend with him in battle… And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.” (Deut. 2:24, 33, 34)

“And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.” (Deut. 3:2, 3)

“And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.” (Lev. 26:7, 8) “Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.” (Deut. 13:15)

Deuteronomy
32:39 See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand.
32:40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
32:42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; [and that] with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
32:43 Rejoice, O ye nations, [with] his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, [and] to his people.

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TE: Regarding the Holocaust, I don't think this is a continual reaping, as other groups have been the subject of similar violence.

RLW: This is written in the past tense, and the dispersion is not still ongoing. The "woes" spoken of in this quotation were the woes experienced by that generation of Jews who had personally rejected Christ as their messiah. Even if we were to credit the "to the third and fourth generation" principle to them it would not extend to the 20th century.

MM: The woes pronounced against the Jews refer to the dispersion of Israel as a nation. God did not curse individual Jews. The Holocaust, however, was directed against Jews as a race. What are the similarities? Why did God permit evil angels to influence Nazi Germany to single out Jews for annihilation?

DA 597
And His words had another purpose. In asking the question, "When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?" Christ designed that the Pharisees should answer as they did. He designed that they should condemn themselves. His warnings, failing to arouse them to repentance, would seal their doom, and He wished them to see that they had brought ruin on themselves. He designed to show them the justice of God in the withdrawal of their national privileges, which had already begun, and which would end, not only in the destruction of their temple and their city, but in the dispersion of the nation. {DA 597.3}

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FS: In the case of divine judgments, such as Sodom and Gomorrah, these judgements are not evil, but just. Just as a sentence from a court is just, as the result of a broken law.

MM: I agree. Just because God punishes and destroys sinners it does not mean it is evil or bad.

What's your point in all this? The Jews still cursed by God? You're beginning to sound like someone looking for Biblical support for anti-semitism.

When the Israelites had faith, God fought their battles for them, and not a one of them lost their lives. It was when they chose to fight their own battles that many of them died, and the truth of what Jesus taught was shown, "They that live by the sword shall die by the sword."

This is getting off topic, however, so I think I'll stop here.