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Re: How do these events differ? [Re: Tom] #83646
01/07/07 02:19 PM
01/07/07 02:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
On the contrary, they differ in many ways. But Israel, as a nation of people, have been suffering under the "perpetual curse" since her probation closed in AD 70.

The following insights from DA 738, 739 make this point clear:

Quote:
1. That people who chose Barabbas in the place of Christ were to feel the cruelty of Barabbas as long as time should last.

2. The blood of the Son of God was upon their children and their children's children, a perpetual curse.

3. Terribly has it been manifested in the condition of the Jewish nation for eighteen hundred years …


Do you disagree, Tom?

Re: How do these events differ? [Re: Mountain Man] #83668
01/07/07 07:56 PM
01/07/07 07:56 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I disagree, based on what you've been saying, that you think the events differ in any meaningful way. You've been arguing the reverse, as far as I can tell.

As to what I think, I stated my opinion at the beginning of the thread. I'll go into a bit more detail here.

The events of A.D. 70 came about because of the Jews and Satan.

Quote:
The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control. {GC 35.3}


Satan caused the Jews suffering. His work is often represented as a punishment visited upon them by God, but those who suggest this are simply falling for his deception.

I think Satan has a lingering hatred of the Jews because they had been God's people in a special way. Satan loves to inspire cruelty in order to cause pain to God, and the holocaust was just one of many of his efforts in this regard.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: How do these events differ? [Re: Tom] #83674
01/07/07 11:39 PM
01/07/07 11:39 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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EGW: Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God.

MM: God did not arbitrarily give evil angels permission to destroy Jews and Jerusalem. He had just cause. Satan would have us believe God didn't have just cause, that He just felt like it, as though His decree was without merit, a capricious command.

Re: How do these events differ? [Re: Mountain Man] #83676
01/08/07 12:15 AM
01/08/07 12:15 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Satan would have us believe that God was punishing the Jews. The quote says nothing about just cause.

The quote demonstrates what should be an obvious truth, by considering the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, which is that it is not God's will to destroy but to save. Satan is the destroyer, and he seeks, just exactly as she says, to make his work look like God's. It's a pity he's so successful at it.

Quote:
A terrible contest is before us. We are nearing the battle of the great day of God Almighty. That which has been held in control is to be let loose. The angel of mercy is folding its wings, preparing to step down from the golden throne and leave the world to the control of Satan, the king it has chosen, a murderer and a destroyer from the beginning. {TDG 308.1}


Quote:
Read the Scriptures carefully, and you will find that Christ spent the larger part of His ministry in restoring the suffering and afflicted to health. Thus He threw back upon Satan the reproach of the evil which the enemy of all good had originated. Satan is the destroyer; Christ, the restorer. {PUR, August 29, 1901 par. 6}


Notice also who originated evil; not God, but Satan.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: How do these events differ? [Re: Tom] #83691
01/08/07 01:12 PM
01/08/07 01:12 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
"Satan is the destroyer; Christ, the restorer."

Tom, does this apply to Satan's demise in the lake of fire, too? That is, will Jesus stand back doing nothing as Satan destroys himself? Also, whatever happened to the idea that it is the unveiled glory of God that destroys sinners in the lake of fire? You don't mention it any more.

Re: How do these events differ? [Re: Mountain Man] #83697
01/08/07 03:59 PM
01/08/07 03:59 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
"Satan is the destroyer; Christ, the restorer."

Tom, does this apply to Satan's demise in the lake of fire, too? That is, will Jesus stand back doing nothing as Satan destroys himself? Also, whatever happened to the idea that it is the unveiled glory of God that destroys sinners in the lake of fire? You don't mention it any more.

I'm not mentioning anything about this, other than to point out that we've been asked to address these questions to the thread that's been set up for this purpose. I already bumped it for you once. Why don't you comply with Mark's wishes?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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