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Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Charity] #82053
12/04/06 01:29 PM
12/04/06 01:29 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Notice re this post - After reading more of the material I quote from below, I have to say it's not as good as I hoped. It's worth reading though. It's clear that this author is addressing issues of calculation and so it provides more evidence that the Karaite method was not used during this time and earlier. Another contribution of the article is the frequent but often unquoted references to the calendrical rules of Enoch as an authority on par with scripture. The author's respect for Enoch and reliance on it is evident throughout. He appears to be weak in some of his interpretations though, but I'm studying them.

The quote below is from: http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-06/anf06-57.htm

The author is Anatolius [a.d. 230-270-280.] From Jerome we learn that Anatolius flourished in the reign of Probus and Carus, that he was a native of Alexandria, and that he became bishop of Laodicea.
Quote:


But this Aristobulus also adds, that for the feast of the Passover it was necessary not only that the sun should pass the equinoctial segment, but the moon also.
For as there are two equinoctial segments, the vernal and the autumnal, and these diametrically opposite to each other, and since the day of the Passover is fixed for the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, the moon will have the position diametrically opposite the sun; as is to be seen in full moons. And the sun will thus be in the segment of the vernal equinox, and the moon necessarily will be at the autumnal equinox.

I am aware that very many other matters were discussed by them, some of them with considerable probability, and others of them as matters of the clearest
demonstration, by which they endeavour to prove that the festival of the Passover and unleavened bread ought by all means to be kept after the equinox.
But I shall pass on without demanding such copious demonstrations (on subjects ) from which the veil of the Mosaic law has been removed; for now it remains for us with unveiled face to behold ever as in a glass Christ Himself and the doctrines and sufferings of Christ. But that the first month among the Hebrews is about the equinox, is clearly shown also by what is taught in the book of Enoch.


Last edited by Mark Shipowick; 12/06/06 01:06 AM.
Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Charity] #82111
12/05/06 10:46 AM
12/05/06 10:46 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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After studying it more, I think there are several interesting passages that may be helpful but some of it doesn't appear to be historical. It seems to have been altered. But, here is one of the more interesting passages:

Quote:
But what wonder is it that they should have erred in the matter of the 21st day of the moon who have added three days before the equinox, in which they hold that the Passover may be celebrated? An assertion which certainly must be considered altogether absurd, . . .

In this passage the author condemns a custom among some of allowing three days before the equinox as being contrary to scripture. I've been studying this because the rules of the AB calendar may have a different definition of the equinox than what is accepted today just as this calendar seems to have a different method of calculating the month - with a dawn viewing on the last day of the old month.

Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Charity] #82349
12/11/06 12:23 AM
12/11/06 12:23 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but 1 Samuel 20:5 is also evidence of a precalculated lunar calendar. In that passage, David says to Johnathan that the next day will be the New Moon. If the Karaite method was in use at the time, David would say 'I think' tomorrow is the New Moon rather than saying positively that tomorrow would be the New Moon because until the evening siting was made the New Moon under Karaite rules can't be announced.

Two other passages that indicate a the use of solar months along side the lunar months for the purpose of tracking civil time as in the AB calendar are from I Kings 4:7 and 1 Chor 27:1-15. These indicate that there were 12 months. No provision is made for a 13th about every 3 years which would be essential in these passages if a lunar reckoning was being used.

Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Charity] #83228
12/30/06 11:48 PM
12/30/06 11:48 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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I’ve made some progress on the practical use of the AB Calendar. One issue that has to be settled at the start before the calendar can be used is how to determine the equinox. In modern times the spring equinox is defined as the time when the sun moves from south to north across the equator in the spring of the year. In the second to last post above I mentioned that some of the Jews and/or Christians reckoned the equinox differently than we do today placing it about three days before the modern equinox. Why did they do that? Apparently they did it because they calculated the equinox according to the rules in the Book of Enoch. Those rules simply say that the new year takes place in the spring when the day becomes longer than the night. But some will ask, isn’t that the same as the equinox?

No, it’s actually not the same. If you download most any astonomical software that calulates the length of days during the year based on geographic location, you’ll see that on the day of the modern spring equinox, that the days are already longer than night at most places on earth a few days before the modern equinox. The most important factors causing the difference are the lay of the land, altitude, and the refraction of the rays of the sun that allows us to see it longer at sunrise and sundown.

The ‘problem’ with this ancient re-definition of the equinox in the AB calendar is that it requires us to chose a geographic location as the official timekeeper for our globe. But is that an insurmountable problem. I suggest that Jerusalem, Israel is a good candidate. Wouldn’t it make sense that Jerusalem rather than Greenwich, England would be the point of reference for astronomical calculations?

On a different topic, I’ve been able produce an intercalation method for the 8 year lunar cycle of the AB Calendar that seems like a good fit and am working on the solar. But even if my calculations are precise, I still have the challenge of deciding where the cycles begin. Certain facinating astronomical facts lead me to conclude that a good candidate for the starting point where all of the cycles seem to align is the fall of 457 BC, the beginning of the 2300 days. So, when I’m finished studying the solar cycle, I hope to post how the calendar should be used to confirm all of the dates that were established by the pioneers of Adventism and witnessed by the Holy Spirit.

For now until I’m finished with my solar studies, I’ll just add a comment or two to the observations about the astronomy of the 2300 days of Daniel 8. Recall that 2300 years yield a very precise alignment between the lunar and solar cycles. As Rosangela said above, there are exactly or almost exactly 28,447 lunations or synodic months, in 2300 solar years or mean tropical years. But not only that, there are also exactly or almost exactly 30,487 anomolistic months (this month is defined as the interval (27.55455 days) between two successive perigee passages of the Moon) a fact that caused one astronomer to comment that the 2300 days/years of Daniel is the most perfect cycle of years known to astronomy (and is also an excellent proof that the periods being discussed are literal years.).

There are two or three other cycles of the moon known to astronomy (such as the sidereal month) that do not align with this cycle, but the fascinating aspect of the cycles that do align in an exact 2300 year period is that these cycles are relative to the earth which is the reference point of the AB calendar. In the AB Calendar the earth is the primary reference point rather than the stars by which modern astronomers calculate sidereal time or the sun. All movement of the heavenly bodies in the AB Calendar is relative to the earth.

This is not at odds with Newtonian mechanics. Newton places the centre of the solar system at the gravitational centre of the sun and planets and his laws prove the truth of that system. But an object's physical mass does not determine the centre of interest. In heaven's eyes, there can be no question, the sun and planets serve the earth and it's inhabitants as the Creator intended when the heavenly bodies were placed in the heavens for 'signs and seasons' on the fourth day. By faith we believe that God framed these other bodies and suited them to serve the above functions for us in the middle of creation.

Last edited by Mark Shipowick; 12/31/06 12:06 AM.
Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Charity] #83246
12/31/06 01:04 PM
12/31/06 01:04 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Quote:
I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but 1 Samuel 20:5 is also evidence of a precalculated lunar calendar. In that passage, David says to Johnathan that the next day will be the New Moon. If the Karaite method was in use at the time, David would say 'I think' tomorrow is the New Moon rather than saying positively that tomorrow would be the New Moon because until the evening siting was made the New Moon under Karaite rules can't be announced.

Not so. If the moon sliver isn't spotted in the 29th day of the month, the following sunset will necessarily be declared the New Moon (even if the weather is clouded), since the months can't have more than 30 days in the lunar calendar.

Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Rosangela] #83247
12/31/06 02:14 PM
12/31/06 02:14 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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That would be true Rosangla if the Karaite method was in use and if it was the 29th day of the old month. But it would have had to have been the 29th day of the month with no sighting at the beginning of the day. With the weight of other scripture evidence - the flood account which documents 30 day months, the fact that 12 months are always referred to indicating the use of a parallel solar calendar, the prophetic month of 30 days, never 29, as well as many other passages, the Karaite Calendar has to be ruled out.

Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Charity] #83295
01/01/07 01:26 PM
01/01/07 01:26 PM
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Charity  Offline OP
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The AB calendar makes the solar cycle the primary cycle and the lunar cycle secondary. The start of the solar year is determined by the days becoming longer than night (at Jerusalem) and the lunar cycle for each year begins with the first new moon after that event. One issue that needs to be resolved in order to put the AB Calendar into operation is the 8 year realignment of the solar cycle and how that affects the beginning of the lunar New Year.

It is clear that the AB Calendar requires the beginning of the lunar cycle and solar cycles to occur after day becomes longer than night, but with the solar cycle of the AB calendar having 364 days, one and sometimes two weeks must be intercalated into the solar cycle at the end of each 8 year cycle. The question is, should the intercalated weeks be inserted so that the new years for the sun and moon always fall after the day becomes longer than the night. If the answer to that is yes, then in eight year cycles that require a two week solar adjustment the solar year will be up to two weeks after the day becomes longer than night and the lunar cycle will begin later as well. If there are any lurkers who have comments on this please let me know. In my view, the two week solar realignment should always be made so that the new solar year never begins before day is longer than night as this appears to be the New Year standard in the AB Calendar.

Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Charity] #83376
01/02/07 06:09 PM
01/02/07 06:09 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Quote:
With the weight of other scripture evidence - the flood account which documents 30 day months, the fact that 12 months are always referred to indicating the use of a parallel solar calendar, the prophetic month of 30 days, never 29, as well as many other passages, the Karaite Calendar has to be ruled out.

I'm not following you. First, prophetic months/years are not based on a literal calendar, since 3 1/2 prophetic years are specifically said to be equivalent to 1260 days - which would preclude any intercalation of days or months. Therefore, there is no correlation whatsoever between the AB calendar of 364 days and the prophetic calendar of 360 days. Three and a half years in the AB calendar would give 1274 days, not 1260.
Second, that there was a lunar calendar which regulated the feasts is clear, and that some months of this calendar had 29 days and some had 30, is also clear. So how do you reach the conclusion that the Karaite calendar has to be ruled out?

Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Rosangela] #83404
01/03/07 01:18 AM
01/03/07 01:18 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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I've pointed out above that the AB Calendar is based on the 360 day prophetic year with 12 months of 30 days each. The AB base year is 360 days with a 354 day lunar year and a 364 day solar year. I've cited VanderKam (spelling?) in support of that fact in addition to the passages in the Astronomical section of the book of Enoch. Since the Bible has passages that refer to a solar, lunar and prophet years, and since God is a God of order, it makes sense to look for a calendar that accouts for all three years that are documented in scripture. No other calendar besides the AB Calendar comes close to doing that.

Re: Is there a Biblical/Divine calendar? [Re: Charity] #83418
01/03/07 01:53 PM
01/03/07 01:53 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Brazil
Quote:
The AB base year is 360 days with a 354 day lunar year and a 364 day solar year.

The conclusion that a 354-day calendar and a 364-day calendar are based on a 360-day calendar simply lacks support. Saying that the AB calendar is based on the 360-day prophetic year, adding 4 days to it, makes so much sense as saying that the Egiptian calendar is also based on the prophetic year, adding 5 days to it.

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