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Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: Rosangela] #130398
01/25/11 12:30 PM
01/25/11 12:30 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
The "normal" for weather patterns is based on the average of the weather the past 30 years. The world is at least 6000 years old. On what basis do we say that the past 30 years is representative for the world history of climate?
Unprecedented may also refer to the age of meteorological studies, which is approximately from 1850 to the present day. This certainly extends the period, but the question still remains. On what basis do we say that the last 160 years is representative for the total history of the world. So what is a normal weather in any given place around the world?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: vastergotland] #130399
01/25/11 01:31 PM
01/25/11 01:31 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
What is impressive in these events is not their occurrence per se. Most of them have already happened - 30, 50, 80, 200 years ago - but as isolate events. What is unusual is their simultaneous occurrence in a global scale. This may mean a global climatic change. Of course this makes people wonder, Where is this going to lead us? If this continues to happen and to intensify, it will inevitably lead to the conditions described by Jesus: "And upon the earth distress of nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world."

Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: Rosangela] #130400
01/25/11 03:09 PM
01/25/11 03:09 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Very true, Rosangela. What matters is what the majority think about it. It doesn't matter that their thoughts are wrong. If they think God is upset and causing disasters because Sunday is being desecrated it will motivate them to do something about it. Ellen was shown:

Quote:
While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast. "The earth mourneth and fadeth away," "the haughty people . . . do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." Isaiah 24:4, 5. {GC 589.3}

And then the great deceiver will persuade men that those who serve God are causing these evils. The class that have provoked the displeasure of Heaven will charge all their troubles upon those whose obedience to God's commandments is a perpetual reproof to transgressors. It will be declared that men are offending God by the violation of the Sunday sabbath; that this sin has brought calamities which will not cease until Sunday observance shall be strictly enforced; and that those who present the claims of the fourth commandment, thus destroying reverence for Sunday, are troublers of the people, preventing their restoration to divine favor and temporal prosperity. Thus the accusation urged of old against the servant of God will be repeated and upon grounds equally well established: "And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel? And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the Lord, and thou hast followed Baalim." 1 Kings 18:17, 18. As the wrath of the people shall be excited by false charges, they will pursue a course toward God's ambassadors very similar to that which apostate Israel pursued toward Elijah. {GC 590.1}

The miracle-working power manifested through spiritualism will exert its influence against those who choose to obey God rather than men. Communications from the spirits will declare that God has sent them to convince the rejecters of Sunday of their error, affirming that the laws of the land should be obeyed as the law of God. They will lament the great wickedness in the world and second the testimony of religious teachers that the degraded state of morals is caused by the desecration of Sunday. Great will be the indignation excited against all who refuse to accept their testimony. {GC 590.2}

Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: Rosangela] #130407
01/25/11 06:33 PM
01/25/11 06:33 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Climatic changes are never mentioned in any Biblical prophecy. Neither you nor I have been able to cite any prophecy that references climatic changes. There are specific events, such as famines, islands being moved out of their place, signs in the sun, moon, and stars, seas roaring and tossing, but no mention of climate change generally. To argue such is just bad really questionable exegesis.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: JAK] #130421
01/26/11 11:51 AM
01/26/11 11:51 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Many things are not explicitly stated in the Bible but can be logically inferred. The Trinity is one of them. As I said, climate variability/change is one of the causes of the roaring and tossing of the seas. If there is a cause-effect relationship between the two, on what basis should climate disturbances be excluded from the prophecy?

Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: vastergotland] #130451
01/26/11 05:44 PM
01/26/11 05:44 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,515
Midland
Originally Posted By: vastergotland
The disturbances in the oceans also seem to have ended a persistent draught in Australia. First there was too little water => end of time sign, then there was too much water => end of time sign. Is it so that any weather pattern for western Australia which keeps it different from the green hills of Ireland is a end time sign?
That reminds me of the time I first heard of El Nino. They told me the reason we were having bad weather was because of El Nino. Then later, I heard others telling me we were having bad weather because of La Nina. Which did strike me as odd, but possible. Then later others told me we were having bad weather because we're between El Nino and La Nina.

I finally concluded we have bad weather and don't pay attention to what they say is the reason. And what is bad weather? I'm sure many life forms in Australia are thinking too much rain was very beneficial as they might now be able to survive and/or reproduce for the first time in many years. Just like the cycle before that, and the one before that, .....



But is the weather different? Of course it is. Every year is different. In our temperate area, I have yet to see any rain forests encroaching, nor have I seen any glaciers encroaching. Scientists have said both have happened in the past. Which is some widely fluctuating climate.

Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: kland] #130765
02/11/11 08:51 AM
02/11/11 08:51 AM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Many are indeed now looking at climatic changes to find a “sign of the end”, as stated in another more pertinent discussion on this issue (see here), which is however related to this one, the only and true sign of the end is found in Matt 24:14. So we should be focusing our energies into fulfilling this rather than be “sign watchers”. God is in full, ultimate control of nature and nothing overwhelmingly catastrophic will occur until He allows it, and that will be only after the unequivocally exhaustive Gospel mandate of Matt 24:14 has been fulfilled.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: NJK Project] #130776
02/11/11 04:21 PM
02/11/11 04:21 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Other pertinent signs include:

1. Universal enforcement of Sunday Laws
2. SDA martyrdom
3. Satan's personation of the Second Coming

Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: Mountain Man] #130790
02/11/11 08:29 PM
02/11/11 08:29 PM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Other pertinent signs include:

1. Universal enforcement of Sunday Laws
2. SDA martyrdom
3. Satan's personation of the Second Coming


Seems to me that these are among the “signs”/events that will come to pass only when final events have begun to be unravelled and this, according to my understanding will not begin to occur until the work of the World Testimony of the Gospel is first completed. So I rather see these as confirming fulfillement during the “end” rather than ‘announcing/warning “signs” of the end.’ The “end” would have already begun a (relatively speaking) long time before e.g., the passing of a Sunday Law. So that is why those who are looking first for a Sunday Legislation in order to mobilize themselves will have waited too late and would have proven to be “unfaithful” in regards to the in-faith evangelistic work that God expects of SDA believers.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Is it Just Me or is Nature MESSED up? [Re: NJK Project] #130877
02/14/11 02:51 PM
02/14/11 02:51 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,515
Midland
"World Testimony"? I'm not familiar with that term. But, if you are speaking about the gospel going to the world and being "completed", the Sunday laws is a decision point for individuals. But maybe you are correct regarding those who are putting off until that time, that probation for those individual would have closed. But I would agree, that for them to get the Sunday laws passed, there would appear to need some overwhelming disaster to allow that to be passed. Many countries are heading towards a financial disaster. They (or the world at large) are prime candidates for a financial "savior" which could require "conditions".

Originally Posted By: Rev 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
What power? How is it able to give that power? Could a possibility be a "bail-out"? With strings attached?

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