Well MM, this is a typical problem we have in communication with you. Try and think this through before you answer.

You state:
The Law is a transcript of God’s character.
The law reveals to man his sins, but it provides no remedy.
It defines and describes righteousness perfectly.
The gospel of Christ alone can free him from the condemnation or the defilement of sin.

Therefore the sum of what you stated is:
God’s character reveals to man his sins, but it provides no remedy.
God’s righteousness provides no remedy for sin.
The gospel of Christ must therefore be outside of God’s character.
Christ must be unlike God’s character.

Obviously the law this is speaking of is not the same as the one of which you spoke above, which provides no remedy for sin.

What you have forgotten or omitted in your first concept of the law is the same thing which the Jews omitted in Christ’s day.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Therefore what follows is:

• Christ is the express image of God’s character.
  Christ’s character is perfect exposition of righteousness.
  Christ’s character includes the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, faith.
  The gospel is the full exposition of God’s character with the weightier matters in place.

What you have done MM is exactly what the Jews did, and why they crucified the Lord. By separating from the law and God’s character the weightier matters, you have established the character of Satan in the place of God.

• They took the law of God and separated from it the weightier matters of the law.
  You took the law of God and separated from it the weightier matters of the law.
  
  They formed a righteousness according to the law devoid of judgment, mercy and faith; and said this is God.
  You formed a righteousness according to the law devoid of judgment, mercy and faith; and said this is God.
  
  They according to their righteousness, and their interpretation of law crucified the Lord of glory.
  You according to your righteousness, and your interpretation of law require the Lord of glory to be crucified.

Christ came to reveal the truth of the law and God’s character; the remedy for sin; so that we may be saved.
Christ came to save just from such a concept of the law which is devoid of judgment, mercy and faith.

I just like you to note that the word “judgment” here means something different than what you think judgment to be. For in this judgment, mercy and faith are the weightier matters.

Thus in Christ who is the express image of the invisible God it is fully fulfilled:
Psa 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

Now which law shall you fulfill?

JB wrote:

Therefore the sum of what you stated is:
God’s character reveals to man his sins, but it provides no remedy.
God’s righteousness provides no remedy for sin.
The gospel of Christ must therefore be outside of God’s character.
Christ must be unlike God’s character.

MM: I disagree with this characterization of Sister White’s comments.

………………………….

JB wrote:

"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." Psalm 19:7. Obviously the law this is speaking of is not the same as the one of which you spoke above, which provides no remedy for sin. What you have forgotten or omitted in your first concept of the law is the same thing which the Jews omitted in Christ’s day.

MM: I disagree with this characterization of Sister White’s comments.

………………………….

JB wrote:

What you have done MM is exactly what the Jews did, and why they crucified the Lord. By separating from the law and God’s character the weightier matters, you have established the character of Satan in the place of God.

MM: I disagree with this characterization of Sister White’s comments.

John, our views on law and obedience and righteousness are vastly different. I see the law as a transcript of God's character. It defines and describes righteousness perfectly. It lacks nothing. To obey the law is to reproduce the character of God. The law reveals to man his sins, but it provides no remedy. The gospel of Christ alone can free him from the condemnation or the defilement of sin.

John
15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Chap. 138 - Fruit-Bearing Branches

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:1, 2. {OHC 144.1}

The Saviour . . . points out the sign of discipleship: "Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples." By faith we are to lay hold on a living God, and maintain an experience that shall breathe love, tenderness, kindness, compassion, and affection. These traits of character are the fruit that the Lord Jesus desires us to produce, and to present before the world as a witness that we have a Saviour who can uplift and who can satisfy. . . . We need not be on the losing side, for in everything He is our sufficiency. {OHC 144.2}

What we need is the presence of Jesus Christ. We want His truth shining in our hearts, pervading all our life actions. This will determine whether or not we are branches of the True Vine. If we are fruit-bearing branches we may expect that the Great Husbandman will prune us, that we may bring forth more fruit. All that is useless, all that would hinder our growth in the Christian life, must be removed. {OHC 144.3}

When the purging comes, we frequently feel that the Lord is against us. Instead of this we should look to ourselves and see if there is not something we have left undone or something we need to take away from our lives before we can stand in right relation to God. . . . {OHC 144.4}

We must be living branches of the True Vine, daily laying hold of our Redeemer that we may bear the fruits of a Christian character. . . . When we are willing to practice self-denial and self-sacrifice, as Christ practiced it in His life, we shall bear fruit to God's glory. {OHC 144.5}

It is the Saviour's delight to see His followers colaborers with God, receiving bountifully all the means of fruit bearing, and giving bountifully, as workers under Him. Christ glorified His Father by the fruit He bore, and the lives of His true followers will produce the same result. Receiving and imparting, His workers will produce much fruit. {OHC 144.6}

Chap. 139 - Abiding in Christ

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:4. {OHC 145.1}

As the severed branch, leafless, and apparently lifeless, is ingrafted into the living stock, and, fiber by fiber, and vein by vein, drinks in the life and strength of the vine until it buds and blossoms and bears fruit, even so may the sinner, by repentance and faith, connect himself with Christ, become a partaker of the divine nature, and bring forth in words and deeds the fruit of a holy life. {OHC 145.2}

Jesus "has life in himself," and this life He offers to impart freely, to souls that are dead in trespasses and sins. Yea, He shares with them His purity, His honor, and exaltation. . . . The sapless branch, ingrafted into the living vine, becomes a part of the vine. It lives while united to the vine. So the Christian lives by virtue of his union with Christ. The sinful and human is linked to the holy and divine. The believing soul abides in Christ, and becomes one with Him. When persons are closely united in the relations of this life, their tastes become similar, they come to love the same things. So those who abide in Christ will love the things which He loves. They will sacredly cherish and obey His commandments. . . . {OHC 145.3}

The vine-branch, nourished from the parent stock, becomes flourishing and fruitful. Its rich and fragrant clusters attest its union with the living vine. So the Christian, abiding in Jesus, will bring forth fruit. In character and life will be manifested, like the teeming cluster of the vine, the precious graces of the Spirit,--love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. . . . {OHC 145.4}

Resolve that you will be fruit-bearing members of the living Vine. The scion can flourish only as it receives life and strength from the parent stock. Improve, then, every opportunity to connect yourselves more closely with Christ. It is by believing Him, loving Him, copying Him, and depending wholly upon Him, that you are to become one with Him; and through you His life and character will be revealed to the world. {OHC 145.5}

Chap. 140 - The Source of My Strength

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:5. {OHC 146.1}

We are finite, but a wonderful arrangement has been made that we may have close connection with the Infinite. . . . Finite beings at their best can do but little, but Christ working through humanity may accomplish wonderful results. {OHC 146.2}

It is a painful thought to me that I can do so little. The limited sphere of human capabilities leads me to feel indeed the words of Christ, "Without Me ye can do nothing." Many are endowed with superior talents and do not use them, because they have no living connection with God. . . . My own scanty knowledge and feeble energies drive me to Jesus, and the language of my heart is, "Oh God, I can do nothing. I hang my helpless soul on Thee, Jesus Christ my Saviour. Put Thy grace into my heart. Attract my mind from my weakness to Thy almighty strength, from my ignorance to Thy eternal wisdom, from my frailty to Thy enduring might. Give me correct views of the great plan of redemption. Let me see and understand what Christ is to me, and that my heart, soul, mind, and strength are bought with a price. Christ has imparted to me that I may impart to others. Lift up my soul; strengthen and enlighten my mind that I may comprehend more clearly the character of God as revealed in Jesus Christ, that I may know that it is my privilege to be a partaker of the divine nature." {OHC 146.3}

The great and eternal power of God fills my mind with awe, and sometimes even terror. . . . May I indeed look upon Jesus, full of goodness and compassion and love, and behold the Lord God, and call Him by the endearing name of Father. {OHC 146.4}

The deep struggles of my own soul against temptations, the earnest longings of my mind and heart to know God and Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour, and to have assurance, peace, and rest in their love, lead me to desire every day to be where the beams of the Sun of Righteousness can shine upon me. {OHC 146.5}

MM, please see post #83913. I addressed your concerns there. If you didn't understand something I wrote there, you can ask me something specific.

Tom

1. Asking me to pick what best describes my thought from a list you have composed is pointless.

2. My point regarding the NIV and 1 John 3:9 was that is says "No one who is born of God will continue to sin" (this is from memory; that's close if not perfect) which you, for some reason, interpret to mean "No one who is born of God will not continue to sin." That's what I said was weird. You also had a list of three things which you inferred from this statement, which I saw no basis for inferring.

I pointed out that where I see the difference is not so much in the texts themselves (that is, how the NIV and KJV put it) but in how you interpret them, where you interpret the NIV to mean exactly the opposite of what it says.

3. I'm not following the end of what you were saying, but, in brief, what my point was is that the character is not comprised of the occasional misdeed or occasional good deed. A person can be a born again Christ and occasionally commit an occasional misdeed, a sin. It seems to me that you are taking a principle, and wanting to make an iron clad rule out of it. Actually, all of your views seem to be like this. They are stated in absolutes. You seem to think this way.

For example, you wrote that in order for a person to be born again, the Holy Spirit must reveal every cultivated sinful habit from birth and must confess them all. This is an absolute statement, which is obviously false. I was able to convince you of the falsity of the statement, because you changed it to be that all sinful habits must be revealed and confessed, except for exceptions to the rule. But, even though you recognize the falsity of the absolute statement, which is seen by your correction of it, you still to not admit the error, which is also an interesting characteristic of your style of thinking.

Part of the reason I've continued to dialog with you is to try to understand how you think. It's very challenging. I've figured out a few things, but there are other things I don't understand (such as your reticence to admit error).

MM: Tom, please help me understand the differences between the NIV and the KJV in the following questions. Thank you.

1. What is the difference between “continue to sin” and “doth not commit sin”?

2. What is the difference between “he cannot go on sinning” and “he cannot sin”?

TE: I've answered this three times, or something like that.

[1] The difference is in you, in how you are interpreting the versions. You, for some odd reason, are interpreting the NIV, which says, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin" to mean "One who is born of God will continue to sin."

[2] There's a verse which reads, "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit." (Matt. 7:18). This doesn't mean that no good tree ever in the history of man has produced a bad fruit, but rather that, as a general practice, good trees to not produce bad fruit. Indeed, it is the fact that they, as a general practice, produce good fruit that makes them good trees. Similarly one who is born of God cannot sin. In the same way that a good tree cannot produce bad fruit. The born again person is not characterized by a life of sin. It's not saying that a born again is not able to commit a sin.

[3] Did you catch your error regarding what you said the King James version says and what it actually says?

This doesn't mean that no good tree ever in the history of man has produced a bad fruit, but rather that, as a general practice, good trees to not produce bad fruit. Indeed, it is the fact that they, as a general practice, produce good fruit that makes them good trees. Similarly one who is born of God cannot sin. In the same way that a good tree cannot produce bad fruit. The born again person is not characterized by a life of sin. It's not saying that a born again is not able to commit a sin.