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Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: Daryl] #84126
01/16/07 07:26 PM
01/16/07 07:26 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Nova Scotia, Canada
In connection with Sunday's study, it seems that Solomon, in his earlier years, didn't always see things the way he did in his later years.

What brought about this change in his attitude?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: Johann] #84135
01/17/07 01:22 AM
01/17/07 01:22 AM
asygo  Offline
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California, USA
Quote:
words spoken to create a laugh {TM 142.2}


vs.

Quote:
he still follows that same habit


There are several ways to understand this. Here are some:
  1. EGW did not follow her own advice
  2. We do not understand what is meant by the 1st quote
  3. We do not understand what really happened in the 2nd quote
  4. The TM quote is wrong


Anything else?

Which one is most likely to be correct?


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: asygo] #84141
01/17/07 04:46 AM
01/17/07 04:46 AM
Johann  Offline
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Posts: 3,014
Iceland
This is a reminder of the EGW counsel to go on searching if you have a question. Then assemble it all before you draw a conclusion. This prevents you from establishing a doctrine on one quote alone. Go on studying until you see the issue from all sides. This goes for Scripture and it goes for the writings of EGW as well.

Our official guide at Elmshaven told us the story from Battle Creek.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: asygo] #84142
01/17/07 09:21 AM
01/17/07 09:21 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: asygo
Quote:
The whispering and laughing and talking which might be without sin in a common business place should find no sanction in the house where God is worshiped. {5T 492.2}

The flippant words that fall from his lips, the trifling anecdotes, the words spoken to create a laugh, are all condemned by the word of God and are entirely out of place in the sacred desk. {TM 142.2}


Context is important.
More context:

What can the minister do without Jesus? Verily, nothing. Then if he is a frivolous, joking man, he is not prepared to perform the duty laid upon him by the Lord. "Without Me," says Christ, "ye can do nothing." The flippant words that fall from his lips, the trifling anecdotes, the words spoken to create a laugh, are all
143
condemned by the word of God and are entirely out of place in the sacred desk. {TM 142.2}

I tell you plainly, brethren, unless the ministers are converted, our churches will be sickly and ready to die. God's power alone can change the human heart and imbue it with the love of Christ. God's power alone can correct and subdue the passions and sanctify the affections. All who minister must humble their proud hearts, submit their will to the will of God, and hide their life with Christ in God. {TM 143.1}

What is the object of the ministry? Is it to mix the comical with the religious? The theater is the place for such exhibitions. If Christ is formed within, if the truth with its sanctifying power is brought into the inner sanctuary of the soul, you will not have jolly men, neither will you have sour, cross, crabbed men to teach the precious lessons of Christ to perishing souls. {TM 143.2}


It appears to me that this does not speak against such an event as for instance when Ellen would comment her son sleaping, but rather the kind of preacher who has nothing to say and therefore replace substance with jokes.


When the worshipers enter the place of meeting, they should do so with decorum, passing quietly to their seats. If there is a stove in the room, it is not proper to crowd about it in an indolent, careless attitude. Common talking, whispering, and laughing should not be permitted in the house of worship, either before or after the service. Ardent, active piety should characterize the worshipers. {5T 492.1}
If some have to wait a few minutes before the meeting begins, let them maintain a true spirit of devotion by silent meditation, keeping the heart uplifted to God in prayer that the service may be of special benefit to their own hearts and lead to the conviction and conversion of other souls. They should remember that heavenly messengers are in the house. We all lose much sweet communion with God by our restlessness, by not encouraging moments of reflection and prayer. The spiritual condition needs to be often reviewed and the mind and heart drawn toward the Sun of Righteousness. If when the people come into the house of worship, they have genuine reverence for the Lord and bear in mind that they are in His presence, there will be a sweet eloquence in silence. The whispering and laughing and talking which might be without sin in a common business place should find no sanction in the house where God is worshiped. The mind should be prepared to hear the word of God, that it may have due weight and suitably impress the heart. {5T 492.2}


This obviously is concerned with behaviour in the church of congregation and pastor. The point appear to be, 'you are in church for one purpose only, to meet with God, and whatever else you may want to do should be done outside of the church'. This might be a problem with Ellen commenting on her sons sleap.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: Daryl] #84147
01/17/07 05:00 PM
01/17/07 05:00 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,133
Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
In connection with Sunday's study, it seems that Solomon, in his earlier years, didn't always see things the way he did in his later years.

What brought about this change in his attitude?

Seeing nobody answered my question for me, I believe the following quote from Sunday's section answers my question:

Quote:

Solomon, old and bitter, had lost his way; hence, all the knowledge and wisdom he acquired meant little to him. In contrast, the wisdom he talks about in Proverbs is a wisdom centered on a knowledge of God, the source of all true wisdom and knowledge. This point is brought home even more powerfully when Solomon links knowledge and understanding with God as the Creator (Prov. 3:19), which proves again how the foundation of all knowledge and wisdom begins with Him.

So what did Solomon do?

Monday's section tells us that "Solomon, finding wisdom a vain endeavor, goes after pleasure instead." This is obvious in the lifestyle he lived re wine, women, and song. Solomon pursued all that his eyes desired, which corresponds to the title of this week's study, which bring me to the quote from Wednesday's section.

Quote:

One of the most famous, and successful, businessmen in American history was Lee Iacocca, who ran the giant Chrysler Corporation for many years. Toward the end of his life, he once said, "Here I am in the twilight years of my life, still wondering what it's all about. . . . I can tell you this, fame and fortune is for the birds."

In the end, both Solomon and this person felt that way.

What about us? Are we pursuing material things to the neglect of spiritual things? Isn't this what finally happened to Solomon? He didn't start out that way, however, his material gain crowded out whatever he once had spiritually.

Could we also be guilty of crowding out God in our daily life?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: Johann] #84160
01/17/07 08:49 PM
01/17/07 08:49 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Johann
This is a reminder of the EGW counsel to go on searching if you have a question. Then assemble it all before you draw a conclusion. This prevents you from establishing a doctrine on one quote alone. Go on studying until you see the issue from all sides. This goes for Scripture and it goes for the writings of EGW as well.


I did a bit of research a few years ago, and found more than one SOP quote relating to levity, jesting, joking, etc. After reading through the 120 pages of material, I concluded that levity, jesting, joking, etc. have no place in the Christian's life. But to this day, I'm still trying to see all sides of the issue.

So, Pastor Johann, what do you think is going on between what EGW wrote and what she did? Is there a discrepancy there? Or do we just not understand what's really happening?


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: Daryl] #84161
01/17/07 09:05 PM
01/17/07 09:05 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
What about us? Are we pursuing material things to the neglect of spiritual things? Isn't this what finally happened to Solomon? He didn't start out that way, however, his material gain crowded out whatever he once had spiritually.

Could we also be guilty of crowding out God in our daily life?


That is very true for many of us. But Satan has an even more sneaky attack.

He can use church positions and activities to gratify our fleshly desires for fame and success. Many crowd out God by being active in church.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: asygo] #84165
01/17/07 09:23 PM
01/17/07 09:23 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,133
Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted By: asygo

Many crowd out God by being active in church.

That's an interesting thought.

Is this what happened to the Scribes, the Pharisees, etc???

Those who are active in the church today had better do some self-examining as the Scriptures says.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: Daryl] #84167
01/17/07 09:44 PM
01/17/07 09:44 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
Is this what happened to the Scribes, the Pharisees, etc???


And a guy named Arnold. And the struggle to extricate himself from the trap continues to this day.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Reply Quote
Re: Lesson Study #3 - All That My Eyes DESIRED [Re: asygo] #84169
01/17/07 09:57 PM
01/17/07 09:57 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: asygo
---
So, Pastor Johann, what do you think is going on between what EGW wrote and what she did? Is there a discrepancy there? Or do we just not understand what's really happening?


As you well know many conservative SDAs regard M L Andreasen as one of the greatest authorities of SDA doctrine. Many do not realize that one of the most vivid descriptions of Ellen White was told by MLA. You find quite a few of his unpublished manuscripts in the book Without Fear or Favor by Virginia Steinweg, R&HPA 1979.

“Hitherto I had accepted the testimonies of others without any critical appraisal or profound conviction one way or the other. Now, however, [in 1909] I had come to a point in life where I must make definite decisions for myself . . .

“This led me to consider a journey to St. Helena, California, where Mrs. White resided at that time. I wished to have firsthand knowledge as far as it was obtainable . . .

“I arrived in St. Helena and was cordially received by Mrs. White . . .. I had brought with me many quotations from her writings that were of outstanding interest either for their theological import or their beauty of expression.

“In my own mind I was convinced that Sister White had never written them as they appeared in print . . .

He goes on to tell that on this visit he discovered in Ellen’s own handwriting a quotation that “was revolutionary and compelled a complete revision of my former view—and that of the denomination—on the deity of Christ.” – but that is another subject.

“When I knew her, Sister White was an aged woman, but in full possession of her faculties… I visited her once early in the morning but at whatever hour I came, she was already at work. There were some who claimed that she was already in her dotage. She must have heard this, for one morning she gave me eight pages to read of what she had written that morning. After I had read it, she smiled at me and said in a playful voice, ‘That’s pretty good, isn’t it, for an old woman in her dotage!’ and then she laughed. The first time I heard Sister White laugh I was shocked, for I did not think that a person in her position should laugh. But laugh she did at times, a sweet, quiet, girlish laugh, altogether appropriate. She was good company and not all the stern, demanding, and commanding personality I had pictured her to be. She was a mother in Israel, and I came to love her.

“When I finally bade her farewell, it was with the profound conviction that I had been face to face with a manifestation and a work I could account for only on the grounds of divine guidance . . . The writings of Sister White are true messages of God for this church and that no one can ignore them and disobey them except at great, infinitely great loss.” Excerpts from pp. 75-78.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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