I would say that, because Cain assumed Adam's fallen nature, he was in need of a power outside of himself in order to not be enslaved by sin, throughout his whole life, including infancy. If this counts as needing to be reconciled, then that would be "yes." (although that's not how I would use the term).


I see. Neither would I call that reconciliation. To me, the need for reconciliation implies a negative initial condition. What you describe seems more neutral.

To reconcile is to bring two parties which have been estranged back together. That's a general definition. It has to do with healing a damaged relationship. A new born baby, taking its first breath, really has done very much relationship-building with God. There's not much of a relationship of any sort to deal with, so the whole concept of healing a broken relationship is a bit tricky to deal with.

In terms of the intitial condition, from the standpoint of God, it is positive. There's no doubt about that. As by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. This includes new born babies. God's grace is given (and effective) to all (as the FW quote I cited earlier explains.)

From the standpoint of the baby, one would think the initial condition would be neutral, since the baby hasn't made any concious choices, but there are pre-natal influences to take into account. There's also supernatual considerations to take into account (e.g. John the Baptist jumping for joy in the womb). But in terms of a relationship, neutral seems to be a reasonable guess, from the standpoint of the baby, since the baby doesn't know God (hard to be anything other than neutral to something you don't even know exists), but from the standpoint of God, the initial condition is positive.

Re: power, I think that's an independent issue. He needed external power, and so does everyone outside of Eden, even those who have been born again and reconciled to God. So the need for power is separate from the need for reconciliation.

Let me put it another way. At birth, and aside from the benefit of Christ's propitiation, did Cain have a title to heaven?

This really needs to be translated into some other language, I think, or else it's not clear that the answer being given is addressing the question that's being asked. At least, I see that danger.

The way I would put it is that the gift of Christ manifests the attitude of the Father to forgive, to accept, to provide grace. The gift is what reconciles us. Had the gift not been given, there could have been no reconciliation (not because God requires it, but because we do), so His not giving the gift would have indicated a lack of desire to forgive, in which case the new-born baby Cain would have been lost (as well as every other human).

My short answer would be, "no". That is, apart from Christ's propitiation, new born baby Cain does not have a title to heaven. What would "yes" mean? Wouldn't it mean that there is something meritorious about new born baby Cain? That wouldn't make sense, would it?

Originally Posted By: Tom Ewall
I believe the condition of a baby depends upon its parents to a large extent. Discussing babies is a tricky matter. From Ellen White's writings, she appears to say there are times when the baby of unbelieving parents might be saved, and it's not automatic that the baby of believing parents will be saved. That might be in 3SM.


I'm familiar with the baby quotes. They do present data points difficult to account for. I haven't yet seen a theory that elegantly explains them.

I can suggest one. God considers that baby, and knows (because He knows the baby) if the baby would be happy spending eternity in the new earth, and resurrects it if the answer is "yes." That's not a full answer, of course, but it's a starting point.

Arnold, again, I agree with Tom. Whether or not baby Cain was lost or saved in the womb depended on what God knew about him. Babies are not guaranteed a place in the New Earth if they die in the womb or if they die before the age of accountability. Only God knows if they would enjoy spending eternity with Him. If they do go to heaven it will be based on the blood and righteousness of Jesus - just like every other person who makes it.