In the case of Angels, including Lucifer before his fall, the following definitions of sin are probably more to the point:

Romans 14:23
For whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 5:17
All unrighteousness is sin.

This is posted by Mike Lowe.

I agree 100 percent Mike! That is the true definition of what sin is for those who were not under the law, for those who were under the law “sin is a transgression of the law”, but in fact if we dig deeper, in the true sense the meaning of it is: Love for self is against the love of God.

Love for self is sin, and this opposed the love of God, which is the living law in heaven and in his universe.

In His love

James S.

James, I think it is important to understand that the Law of Ten Commandments, which in part came into existence after the Fall of man, are inherent in the Law of Love, which has existed from eternity. Just because they were not specifically stated (expressed or worded) before the Fall does not mean that they did not exist within the principles of love dating from eternity.

The same is true of the sins not specifically prohibited by the ten commandments (i.e., drugs, smoking, movies, music, etc). Every species of sin is prohibited by the law of God in one way or another.

In reality the law is one law - not ten laws. The ten commandments are one law. Like a chain with ten links is still one chain (especially when one end is anchored and you're hanging from the other end suspended over a cliff [a rock climbing illustration]). James put it this way:

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I believe this applies to all law. Since all laws are really only one law - the law of love - then all laws are inherent within the one great law, and as such have existed, at least in principle, from eternity past, present and future. Thus, there never really has been a time when the law of ten commandments has not existed (even though they were not expressly worded until after the Fall).

This principle holds true before and after the crucifixion of Christ. The law of ten commandments are eternally inherent within the law of love, therefore, they continue to exist this side of the Cross.

Do you see my point?

[ October 24, 2002, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

Mike.

I understood what your point is, but do you understand and see my point of view?

I know that the Ten Commandment was given to mankind based on the principle of love, but it is self NOT love. This is a hard point to understand although the Scripture gives so many quotes to clarify the distinction between them.

For example; a glass is a glass, and the water in the glass will still be water. But now you have a glass of water.

The Ten Commandment is the glass containing love in it as the water in the illustration above. But the Ten Cs could never become water as a glass could never become water. The water will fill in every space given to it, but its container could not fill in every space of the water. So does the Ten Commandment, it contains love but it is not love and could never become love. So, when you say and many people thinks the same, that the Ten Commandment is love or 10 Cs = love, the error begun.

The Scripture clearly tell us the distinction between love as a principle of heaven and the Ten Commandment.

Love imparts life, so it could never condemn. The law lead to condemnation and death since it could not imparts life. Love is the fulfillment of the law but the law is not fulfillment of love. Many could have a legalistic righteousness through their perfect obedience but empty of love, cold, pride, hate and anger is in their heart. Christ himself gives a clear distinction of what love is and what the ten Commandment is.

So when Paul said that the law was given at Sinai, it means that the Ten Commandments even existed and was known since Adam but it was orally spoken and could not made men come under it jurisdiction, otherwise it was not necessary given in written. If it is the same as love then God would not give it to Moses in written.

In His love

James S.

So, we must know the distinction between love as a principle and the Ten Commandment that consist love as it principle.

Does God have two or more standard of righteousness for a fitness for heaven?
Does God have two or more standard of what sin is?

This questions is related to each other, having the correct knowledge about it will make us easier to understand the great plan of salvation, justification and fitness for heaven, all and all the true Gospel of Christ.

In His love

James S.

When God created men and this world, did he know that men would rebel against him so that he must take action to save them back through Christ redemption? He knew that! So, what is the purpose of creating man, if he must have such a great task and responsibility to save man with sacrificing Jesus Christ and made him suffer till he died on the cross?

I can answer this with; God created man and the great plan of salvation to proclaimed and proved his great love and that he is a just and righteous God to face the challenges and claims to his authority and sovereignty that comes from Satan and his angels.

Since the first day of creation, his great plan of salvation and proving himself a just, righteous and loving God begun. He has planned since the beginning to save men back after their fall through Christ redemption, for that, he must prepare a way that will introduce men about this coming Savior.

Men need a Savior because they could not atone for their own sins and they could not change their nature back in the likeness and image of God after the fall, only God could do it for them.

For that he must proclaimed first his holy principle, orally spoken to men and he required their obedience. After that he must choose and sets out a generation from among the nations and tribes scattered around the world, to carry out his plan of salvation.

He choused Abraham descendants and sets them out from all other nations and tribes by giving them a specific sign that they are the people of God, Creator of heaven and earth.

Sabbath keeping and circumcision are two signs that distinguished them from other tribes and nations. Sabbath is a memorial day to God’s creation day and circumcision was a sign of righteousness, that they were God’s righteous people on earth.

If God didn’t choose Abraham descendants to perform his plan of salvation, then Sabbath keeping would not only for them but also for all Adam’s descendants, because this weekly memorial was given since Eden.

Through Abraham, Israel was chosen to carry our God’s great plan of salvation. The law that was formerly spoken orally to them to introduce God’s principle, now was given in writing. The purpose of it is to lead them to Christ, their coming Redeemer and Savior.

In His love

James S

Thus, Sabbath keeping, the law orally spoken to them and later on the law of circumcision was a way to prepare Israel and separated them from other nations to receive God’s plan to save men through Jesus Christ that he proclaimed and made it lawful at Sinai.

Before Sinai there was no legal law that made men came under its jurisdiction and that might judge and condemn them for their failure in obedience. All what God had said and done in the past must be his own prerogative actions that he must give a responsibility at the Judgment Day to his enemies. What he had done in wiping out the entire world with flood and only saving Noah and his family was an example.

But after Sinai, a legal law came in effect and put Israel under its jurisdiction. A pattern of righteous living had been given, and a legal judgment and condemnation took place.

Was the law then designated to continue in effect after the mission has accomplished? This is a great question that needs a deep and thoroughly study of the Scripture.

Firstly we must know what is the purpose of the law given to Israel, including Sabbath observance and circumcision.

In regard of Sabbath observance and circumcision, this was given to prepare Israel as God’s chosen people on earth among all other nations and tribes that will carry out his great plan of salvation. If Sabbath observance and circumcision was universal, then it made no distinction between Israel and the Gentiles.

In regard the law given at Sinai, this is a means to lead Israel to Christ. How does it work?

The law has 5(five) functions so far;
1. To put men under its jurisdiction so that God might have a legal right to judge them.
2. To points out the sin in them (sin they were conceived and born with) and their deeds that breaks the law.
3. To legally judge and condemn them with death penalty as the wages of sin for what they are and what they have done.
4. To introduce Christ, their sin Redeemer and Savior that solved out their dual condemnation.

Thus the purpose of the law given to Israel was very clear, it is to lead them to Christ for the need of salvation and eternal life.

In His love

James S.

So, was it only the sacrificial law that leads them to him? No! It only introduces Christ and his ministry on earth but could not reveals sin. Was it only the Ten Commandment that leads to Christ? No! It points out the sin in them and condemns them for what they are and what they have done that is against the law. Just like a mirror that could only give us a reflection but not the real thing, the Ten Commandment is just like a shadow compared to Christ, the main body. It could not justify but condemns, it could not gives life but death and it could not recreate us to the likeness and image of God but locked up us in prison of sin.

“Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could imparts life; then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But the Scripture declares that THE WHOLE WORLD IS A PRISONER OF SIN, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. Before this faith came, WE WERE HELD PRISONERS BY THE LAW, LOCKED UP until faith should be revealed” – Galatians 3:21,22.

Could the Ten Commandment stands alone without the Sacrificial law? Then no one can come to know Christ and his ministry.

So, which law that leads to Christ?

The whole law, it is unseparately and undivided! It has its full functions only when it stands and accepted as a whole!! Taking out the law that introduce Christ ministry and say that the Ten Commandment is still in effect will made the law worthless and meaningless, because it doesn’t lead to Christ anymore.

The law as a whole given at Sinai is the law that leads to Christ, because:
1. The Ten commandment reveals the sin in men and the sins they committed.
2. The Ten Commandment condemn men for these sins with death penalty as it wages.
3. The Sacrificial law introduces Christ and his ministry that will redeem man’s sins and released them from condemnation of the law.

This law as a whole leads us to Christ for the need of man’s salvation!

In His love

James S

Once a man accepts Christ ministry and believe in his gospel, he became his personal Redeemer and Savior, and for this God justify him by his faith in Christ. The law then has completed its missions, since it has successfully led him to Christ for his salvation through a justification by faith.

Would then the law needed for a continuation of it functions to him? Would it be needed to supervise him any longer? No more!

“Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law, for, you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” –m Galatians 3:25.

This declaration is final, since he is no longer a prisoner of sin but son of God, he didn’t need the law any longer. Since he were in Christ by faith, he didn’t need the supervision of the law that led him to Christ. “Christ is the end of the law” – Romans 10:4, where the law ended there stands Christ. When he were in the law, he hasn’t reach him yet, but when he reach him by his faith, he stands at the end of the law, he stands in Christ and no longer in the way of the law. “so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes”. That is the goal of the law; Christ is the goal of the law, for a righteousness that comes from faith. So, when he has faith in him, the goal is accomplished and to be continued with a life in faith and a walk after the Spirit where he will has “the obedience that comes from faith.”

Christ is the end of the law for its supervisions and external guidance, since he has now faith in him. Christ is the goal of the law for a righteousness that comes by faith. A righteousness that could not be achieve through law obedience since the law could only condemn. And having the righteousness by faith, he will also has “the obedience that comes from faith” – Romans 1:5, through a life in faith under the leading of the Spirit. This will lead him to heaven and eternity, with Christ as a starting point; the law was behind, which law? The whole law given at Sinai to Moses and Israel!

In His love

James S

Thus the law was given to points out sins and made it become utterly sinful (Romans 3:20, 7:7), it was added so that the trespass (sins) might increased (Romans 5:20), “it was added because of transgressions UNTIL the Seed to whom the promise referred HAD COME” (Galatians 3:19).

Please give special attention to the word “until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.” Since he had come, the law that was added 430 years later after Israel has chosen came to an end.

Thus the law was given to points out sins and made it become utterly sinful (Romans 3:20, 7:7), it was added so that the trespass (sins) might increased (Romans 5:20), it was added because of transgressions UNTIL the Seed to whom the promise referred HAD COME (Galatians 3:19).

Luke understand this as he said: "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed UNTIL JOHN. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it” – Luke 16:16.

Does this include Sabbath observation and circumcision? Yes!

Since the purpose of Sabbath observance and circumcision was to sets out and distinguished Israel from other Gentiles, that they were the chosen people of God, then when Christ has fulfilled it mission with his death on the cross, not only the law that comes to an end but also these signs, since from the cross on, salvation has come to all men and no longer for Israel only.

If Sabbath was made for men, all men from every nations and tribes, then so would be the law and Israel would not be a chosen people of God; but the law and circumcision was given only to Israel, then so does the Sabbath observation.

Paul understood this well, so he said: “16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ” – Colossians 2:16,17.

Since the cross where the law was nailed (Colossians 2:14), no longer Christ believers would be under the law, under its jurisdiction and condemnation that will only make them become slaves to sin (Romans 6:14; Galatians 3:21,22). Christ has given them a liberty to choose between a life for self or a life for God without the law, they must depend on faith to be in the Kingdom of God.

In his love

James S.

In fact, the law was ended in Christ and nailed to the cross 2000 years ago. Since then the gospel of the Kingdom of God was preached.

What is the gospel of the Kingdom of God? It is the Gospel of Christ; “For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith" Romans 1:17.

To call people of the world, “to the obedience that comes from faith” Romans 1:5.

No longer to the obedience of the Ten Commandments, no longer to the obedience that comes from our sinful desire, but to the obedience that comes from faith, as through faith we will have fruits of the Spirit that conforms and fulfills the principle of the Kingdom of God where we are going to go.

In His love

James S