TE: Interesting response. You give out a book written before the 1888 message was given written by someone who was not one of the 1888 messengers because you agree that it's important to study and understand the 1888 message.

MM: Steps to Christ was published in 1892.

Must (all?) of what was published in Steps to Christ was written before 1888. When it was published doesn't make a difference. What she wrote before 1888 could not have come from the 1888 message, which she hadn't heard yet.

TE: (btw, are you aware that Ellen White knew she did not bring the 1888 message? I'm asking this be you seem to be referring to her as if she had.)

MM: She was teaching it before 1888. SC is the best synthesis of the 1888 message available today.

I guess this means "no." (i.e. you're not aware that she knew she wasn't bringing the 1888 message)

Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don't you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don't you give a rap any more what "Sister White said"-- "Sister White said this," and "Sister White said that," and "Sister White said the other thing." But say, "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel," and then you do just what the Lord God of Israel does, and what he says, {SpM 167.2}

Christ says, "I do the works of my Father. The works that I saw him do, I do." Now the works and the sentiments and the principles that we have seen, that God has manifest in dealing with one another, the


-168-

the purchase of the blood of Christ - only think of it. Here we are, the purchase of the blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. You just think of it. It cost his life. He was crucified for us, and yet here is the very instrumentality that God would have stand next to heaven, that God would have stand where the light of His glory can shine upon them in unmistakable rays, and they know that the light of heaven is with them. It is no emotion, but it is a living faith that is founded on a living Word and a living God, and the Saviour, who proclaimed over the sepulcher of Joseph. "I am the resurrection and the life." {SpM 167.3}




But don't you quote Sister White. I don't want you ever to quote Sister White until you get your vantage ground where you know where you are. Quote the Bible. Talk the Bible. It is full of meat, full of fatness. Carry it right out in your life, and you will know more Bible than you know now. You will have fresh matter - O, you will have precious matter; you won't be going over and over the same ground, and you will see a world saved. You will see souls for whom Christ has died. And I ask you to put on the armor, every piece of it, and be sure that your feet are shod with the preparation of the gospel. {SpM 174.1}

Tom, what did Sister White learn from J&W in 1888 that is not clearly explained in SC?

Thomas, I have complied with Sister White's requirement for the right and privilege to use the SOP to support her interpretation of the Revelation. There is no way the future will not play out exactly the way it is described in the SOP.

He who lives will se...

MM, anything EGW learned from Jones and Waggoner wasn't explained in SC, because SC was written before she heard Jones and Waggoner preach.

Even after she heard the preach, she didn't bring the message they brought, because the Lord gave it to them, not her.



This is from J. S. Washburn, who was a delegate at the 1888 Conference who met with Ellen White.

Ellen White wrote that Jones and Waggoner brought us truth that we would not have had had they not brought it to us (unless the Lord sent someone else to bring that truth). She *never* stated that she presented the same message that they did, or that we could get their message by reading her writings.

Tom, what did J&W teach in 1888 that is not clearly explained in SC?

LDE 200
The Lord in His great mercy sent a most precious message to His people through Elders [E.J.] Waggoner and [A. T.] Jones. This message was to bring more prominently before the world the uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. It presented justification through faith in the Surety; it invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ, which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. {LDE 200.1}

Thomas, your unwillingness to accept the interpretation of the Revelation as described in the SOP is unsettling.

MM, what in my answer to your question did you not understand?

Tom,


Judas chose to betray Christ, and of course he could have chosen otherwise. But when the prophecy was pronounced, God already knew what he would do, and said this to strengthen the faith of His people in Him (John 13:19).

Every intelligent being in the universe has free will, including God. If you will define a conditional prophecy in terms of what those involved in it could choose, then every prophecy would be conditional, even those related to the plan of salvation. Christ could have changed His mind and chosen not to come to earth. After He came, He could have changed His mind and chosen to come back to heaven instead of dying for us (DA 690). Satan could choose at any moment to repent of his sins. Israel as a nation could have chosen not to reject Christ. The soldier could have chosen another method to verify Christ’s death instead of piercing His side. The man of sin could choose to not oppose God. And so on.

I think what defines a prophecy as conditional or unconditional is its purpose. The purpose of some prophecies is specifically to shed light upon the future, to show God’s omniscience (Isa. 46:9,10) or to guide God’s people. Of course the failing in the fulfillment of these prophecies would ruin God’s purpose. These are unconditional prophecies. God is telling exactly what will happen, because He knows it beforehand.

The purpose of some other prophecies is to motivate a nation, or a group of people, to follow God, through promises or threats. These are the conditional prophecies, and their fulfillment depends on the human response to God’s message.

TE: MM, what in my answer to your question did you not understand?

MM: I think I understood what you posted. What I want to know are a few examples of things J&W taught that Sister White did not explain in SC. I hear you saying God revealed things to J&W that He did not share with Sister White. What are some of those things?

PS - Just in case somebody feels this is off topic, please keep in mind that it relates to the third angel's message, which I believe is an unconditional prophecy.