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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Daryl]
#85071
02/08/07 05:55 PM
02/08/07 05:55 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Daryl, how is this idea you and Mike have anything above wishfull thinking?
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Daryl]
#85073
02/08/07 06:06 PM
02/08/07 06:06 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Tom:Does freedom to choose imply the ability to do? If so, how can we do something which God has already seen we won't?
Daryl:It's because God knows the choice we are going to choose to make.
I had trouble understanding this, because my first question was a yes or no question. Since you didn't answer yes or no, but you did answer the second question, I assume the answer to the first question is "yes." Is that right.
And the sentence starting "It's because" is answering the second question? So we have:
Q.How can we do something which God has already seen we won't.
A.Because God knows the choice we are going to choose to make.
Is this what you are trying to say? This doesn't make any sense to me. Assuming God knows what choice we will make doesn't explain how we can make a choice He has seen we won't make. I really don't know what point you're trying to make. Please elaborate.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#85074
02/08/07 06:07 PM
02/08/07 06:07 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Daryl, how is this idea you and Mike have anything above wishfull thinking? What do you mean, Thomas? (I think I know what you mean, but not positive.)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#85075
02/08/07 06:22 PM
02/08/07 06:22 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Tom, as in "this is so becouse, eh, so is how it is"...
as in, "I cant explain this but it must be so regardless"
as in, "no, the fact that someone has a movie where every act I will ever undertake for my entire life is recorded and the fact that nothing I will ever do differs the slightest from what is recoded in this movie does not mean that my actions are bound to what the movie shows and I do have a choise, even though the entire universe knows I will never use it to do anything except what is already recorded in this said movie"
Thats wishfull thinking for ya...
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: vastergotland]
#85076
02/08/07 07:05 PM
02/08/07 07:05 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: vastergotland]
#85077
02/08/07 07:17 PM
02/08/07 07:17 PM
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I base what I say on the following text:
Luke 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Nothing is impossible with God is what the text says, therefore, why do you limit God by saying that it is impossible for God to know what choice we will make even before we make it? Let us also look at the following text:
Matthew 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.
Christ prophesied to Peter that Peter would deny him three times this very night before the cock crows. Peter said he would not. Christ told Peter what he would choose to do. Peter said he wouldn't make such a choice. Who was correct? Was it Christ, or was it Peter?
Matthew 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech betrayeth thee.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
This is a good example of a choice Christ said Peter would make even when Peter himself said he would never make such a choice. The above text tells us that Peter chose to do exactly what Christ prophesied he would do.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Daryl]
#85078
02/08/07 07:27 PM
02/08/07 07:27 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Daryl, I asked this: Does freedom to choose imply the ability to do? If so, how can we do something which God has already seen we won't? Does your response have anything to do with my questions? If so, what? I'll go ahead and respond in a separate post to your comments, but I have not idea why you're saying the things you're saying. A context would be helpful.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#85080
02/08/07 07:39 PM
02/08/07 07:39 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Nothing is impossible with God is what the text says, therefore, why do you limit God by saying that it is impossible for God to know what choice we will make even before we make it? You're misuing this text. God can't do something that's logically impossible. For example, He can't create a rock that's so big He can't lift it. I guess Thomas "foresaw" this because he wrote:To use one of your illustrations, if what will happen during next week is recorded in the multimedia library of heaven today, then free choise is on the same level as round squares or God creating a rock that heavy that he cannot lift it.
Regarding Peter, clearly Christ was right, but why is this important? It shows that Christ knew Peter better than Peter knew himself, but it doesn't address the issue of how one can do one of two things if it is only possible for one to happen.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#85081
02/08/07 07:44 PM
02/08/07 07:44 PM
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Does freedom to choose imply the ability to do?
Yes, the freedom to choose implies the ability to do.
If so, how can we do something which God has already seen we won't?
We can't, simply because God has seen beforehand, as in the case of Peter, what Peter would freely choose not to do, and what Peter would freely choose to do instead. God didn't force any choice out of Peter, and He doesn't force any choice out of us. Christ telling Peter what he would or wouldn't do didn't remove the power of choice from Peter. Peter still had the freedom of choice to do whatever he chose to do. In spite of what Peter said when Christ told Peter what he would do, when the rubber hit the road, Peter chose all by himself to deny Christ three times, exactly as Christ prophesied Peter would do.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Daryl]
#85082
02/08/07 08:09 PM
02/08/07 08:09 PM
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God making a rock so heavy that He couldn't lift it?
Why would God even consider such a thing?
For what purpose would God even consider this?
God can make a rock as large and as heavy as He wants, however, by saying that He could make a rock so heavy that He couldn't lift it would be senseless, for why would God ever want to even consider doing such a thing that would limit Himself? God can't be limited in that manner, otherwise He wouldn't be God.
God has limited Himself though in a more realistic way. Do you know what that is?
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