I already know you think that "He cannot sin because he is born of God" means "He cannot commit a known sin because he is born again, plus is abiding in Jesus." Is there some other point you want to make?

Actually, I am curious about the phrase "for his seed remaineth in him". (vs 9) Do you see this as a reason why born again believers "cannot sin"?

Yes.

I think this expresses the same idea as John, in terms of what it means to say that a born again person cannot sin because His seed remains in him.

Amen!

That's a beautiful quote, isn't it? The part right before it is good too. (Well, the whole book is good). It talks about how God has made provision what we will be like Him (Christ), and He will accomplish this if we don't interpose a perverse will and thus frustrate His grace.

It sounds like we're on the same page as to what Jesus does for us and through us when we do not hinder the Holy Spirit. I thoroughly love it, that is, walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, not sinning, and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit - being like Jesus. Thank you Jesus!

Unfortunately I suspect we are not on the same page so far as just how converted, transformed people are the moment they are born again. I believe Jesus carefully, cautiously reveals to them all of their cultivated sinful habits, not too fast, not too slow, so as to not blow them away, and that they experience the miracle of rebirth the instant their last habit is revealed and confessed.

At this precise point they are justified, counted as though they have never sinned. Jesus implants within them the sinless seed or mind of he new man, which comes complete with all of the righteous fruit and attributes of God's character. Not one trait or fruit is missing. They are not, however, born again mature. Like Jesus, they grow in grace and mature in the fruits of the Spirit so long as they are actively and aggressively abiding in Jesus.

Eternity is not long enough to exhaust their ability to become more and more mature, more and more like Jesus. This process of sanctification, which begins the instant they are reborn, continues throughout eternity. It involves maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. It does not include discovering cultivated sinful habits, which hitherto had not been revealed, which Jesus was waiting to reveal to them at a more convenient time. Sanctification only involves maturing in the fruits of the Spirit.

Again, I suspect we disagree regarding some of these details. I hope we can discuss them.

I don't know a single person to whom this definition of being born again applies.



My experience was similar to this. Those who I know who have been converted have had experiences similar to this. I don't know anyone who has had the born again experience you are describing.

Sister White certainly described it the way I did:

SC 29
One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. It makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips. The sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself as he views the pure, spotless character of Christ. {SC 29.1}

No, that's not describing things at all like you say; it's explaining things according to the way I was saying, according to the way people actually experience conversion.

When one is converted, one is made aware of one's sinfulness and one's need for Christ. These are the two overriding things. Ask anyone who has been converted, and these two things will be mentioned, surely.

What you are saying is that conversion has to do not with a need for Christ or a conviction of one's sinfulness, but with having every sinful habit cultivated from birth revealed by the Holy Spirit. At the precise moment the last sinful habit is revealed, then the process of being born again is completed. That neither ties in with reality or Scripture. I don't know a single person who has had that experience.

Here's an example of conversion from Scripture: