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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Daryl]
#86052
03/05/07 03:07 PM
03/05/07 03:07 PM
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How about learning from our own SDA Bible Dictionary? I pulled out my SDA Bible Dictionary to see what it has to say about the word "foreknowledge" and read the following:
Foreknowledge. [Gr. prognoµsis, “a knowing beforehand,” “foreknowledge.”] That aspect of God’s omniscience by which future events are known to Him before, and apart from, any objective indication that they are to take place. The term appears only in Acts 2:23 and in 1 Pe 1:2, KJV. The related verb form, “to foreknow” (proginoµskoµ), is used in Rom 8:29; 11:2; etc. The Scriptures in no way circumscribe the foreknowledge of God; in fact, they point to this ability to discern the future as a primary evidence that He is God (Is 42:9; 45:21; 46:10; 48:3–8).
It is important to distinguish between foreknowledge and predestination. “To know” does not mean “to determine,” and “to foreknow” must not be construed to mean “to predetermine.” In Acts 2:23 God’s foreknowledge concerning Christ’s vicarious death is connected with His infinite purpose, or “plan,” that Christ should die for sinners. God foresaw, as well, that some would accept the salvation thus provided, and to such He purposed to give the privilege of becoming the sons of God (Jn 1:12). He foreordained, or predestined, all who would voluntarily accept the gift of salvation “to be conformed to the image of his Son” (Rom 8:29). Thus, in the case of human beings as free moral agents, predestination is based on foreknowledge. According to v 30, those thus predestined to conformation to the image of Christ are said to be “called,” “justified,” and “glorified.” Similarly in 1 Pe 1:2 the divine election must be considered as based on “the foreknowledge of God” with respect to those who accept His gift of salvation.
Let's take a look at the prophecies relating to Christ to the precision of knowing in advance that Christ would die on a cross way before this manner of death was ever invented. God obviously knew in advance that the Romans would invent this type of death penalty for a non-Roman citizen.
How does one explain this away? As far as I know, nobody responded to this post, therefore, I ask again, how does one explain this away?
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Tom]
#86053
03/05/07 03:10 PM
03/05/07 03:10 PM
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The risk of failure is a good question, therefore, I will need to study that one further before responding to that in relation to this and the other related topics.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Daryl]
#86055
03/05/07 03:18 PM
03/05/07 03:18 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Ok, Daryl. Here are a couple of related texts you may wish to consider. Never can the cost of our redemption be realized until the redeemed shall stand with the Redeemer before the throne of God. Then as the glories of the eternal home burst upon our enraptured senses we shall remember that Jesus left all this for us, that He not only became an exile from the heavenly courts, but for us took the risk of failure and eternal loss. Then we shall cast our crowns at His feet, and raise the song, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing." Rev. 5:12.(DA 131) The value of a soul, who can estimate? Would you know its worth, go to Gethsemane, and there watch with Christ through those hours of anguish, when He sweat as it were great drops of blood. Look upon the Saviour uplifted on the cross. Hear that despairing cry, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" Mark 15:34. Look upon the wounded head, the pierced side, the marred feet. Remember that Christ risked all. For our redemption, heaven itself was imperiled. At the foot of the cross, remembering that for one sinner Christ would have laid down His life, you may estimate the value of a soul. (COL (1900) p. 196)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Tom]
#86058
03/05/07 04:10 PM
03/05/07 04:10 PM
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In light of it all, God the Father foreknew that Christ in His humanity wouldn't fail, however, Christ in His humanity did not know whether He would succeed or failure, therefore, it was a risk to Him.
Satan with his fierce temptations wrung the heart of Jesus. The Saviour could not see through the portals of the tomb. Hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the grave a conqueror, or tell Him of the Father's acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that Their separation was to be eternal. Christ felt the anguish which the sinner will feel when mercy shall no longer plead for the guilty race. It was the sense of sin, bringing the Father's wrath upon Him as man's substitute, that made the cup He drank so bitter, and broke the heart of the Son of God. {DA 753.2}
Christ in His humanity depended on information given to Him by the Father, most likely through the Holy Spirit, such as the denial of Peter and the betrayal by Judas. Christ didn't use His own divine power in His humanity while on this planet. The Father chose not to reveal to Christ whether or not He would succeed or fail.
Upon Christ as our substitute and surety was laid the iniquity of us all. He was counted a transgressor, that He might redeem us from the condemnation of the law. The guilt of every descendant of Adam was pressing upon His heart. The wrath of God against sin, the terrible manifestation of His displeasure because of iniquity, filled the soul of His Son with consternation. All His life Christ had been publishing to a fallen world the good news of the Father's mercy and pardoning love. Salvation for the chief of sinners was His theme. But now with the terrible weight of guilt He bears, He cannot see the Father's reconciling face. The withdrawal of the divine countenance from the Saviour in this hour of supreme anguish pierced His heart with a sorrow that can never be fully understood by man. So great was this agony that His physical pain was hardly felt. {DA 753.1}
He had to do this alone in His humanity without using His own divine power as well as without any outside divine presence or interference whatsover. This is why it was a risk to Christ, as He couldn't see "through the portals of the tomb." God the Father could see "through the portals of the tomb" but Christ in His humanity couldn't. This is the answer that came to me.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Daryl]
#86061
03/05/07 05:17 PM
03/05/07 05:17 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Daryl, what you're saying doesn't tie into what Ellen White wrote in any way, as far as I can tell. She didn't write that it appeared to Christ that He was taking a risk, when really He wasn't, but that *God* took a risk in sending His Son. She said the following things:
1.God sent His Son at the risk of failure and eternal loss.
2.Remember Christ risked all for us.
3.All heaven was imperiled for our redemption.
These are fake things that weren't really the case that Christ, in ignorance, thought might happen, but really there wasn't any really danger. There was real danger involved here!
If you read carefully Ellen White's statements, you see she not only communicated that actual danger was involved, but she was moved by the fact that God would allow Christ to undertake such a dangerous mission.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Tom]
#86147
03/07/07 11:11 AM
03/07/07 11:11 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Tom,
How do you harmonize the text which says that Christ is "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world" with the passage which says that He could, at the Gethsemane, "refuse to drink the cup apportioned to guilty man. It was not yet too late. He might wipe the bloody sweat from His brow, and leave man to perish in his iniquity" (DA 690)?
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Rosangela]
#86159
03/07/07 04:50 PM
03/07/07 04:50 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I think the passage speaking of Christ's being the lamb slain from the foundation of the world is dealing with God's character; it's not a prophecy. IOW, even had sin not originated, the statement would still be true, because Christ was willing to risk all for our redemption, and God was willing to risk His Son, had the need come about. The principle is outlined here: God's healing power runs all through nature. If a tree is cut, if a human being is wounded or breaks a bone, nature begins at once to repair the injury. Even before the need exists, the healing agencies are in readiness; and as soon as a part is wounded, every energy is bent to the work of restoration. So it is in the spiritual realm. Before sin created the need, God had provided the remedy. Every soul that yields to temptation is wounded, bruised, by the adversary; but whenever there is sin, there is the Saviour. It is Christ's work "to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, . . . to set at liberty them that are bruised." Luke 4:18.(Ed 113) The danger which God undertook was real. He really did risk losing His Son in order to redeem us, which is an awesome thought.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Tom]
#86182
03/08/07 12:33 PM
03/08/07 12:33 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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I think the passage speaking of Christ's being the lamb slain from the foundation of the world is dealing with God's character... because Christ was willing to risk all for our redemption How is that so? If He had refused "to drink the cup apportioned to guilty man" and left "man to perish in his iniquity" (DA 690), He wouldn't have been willing to risk all for our redemption.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Tom]
#86184
03/08/07 01:45 PM
03/08/07 01:45 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Satan in heaven had hated Christ for His position in the courts of God. He hated Him the more when he himself was dethroned. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem a race of sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity. He permitted Him to meet life's peril in common with every human soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it, at the risk of failure and eternal loss.(DA 49) Johann, I really don't think this is difficult to understand. God sent His son at a risk, because of His great love for us. I agree with you, Tom.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Johann]
#86185
03/08/07 02:52 PM
03/08/07 02:52 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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How is that so? If He had refused "to drink the cup apportioned to guilty man" and left "man to perish in his iniquity" (DA 690), He wouldn't have been willing to risk all for our redemption. This was the whole question which Satan raised. There's a statement from the SOP which I can't remember well enough to find which says something like the cross answered forever the question, "Is there selfishness with God."? Satan had accused God of requiring things of His creatures which He was unwilling to do Himself. Christ proved the rightness (or "righteousness") of God; He demonstrated His true character. The fact that He was willing to drink the cup to its dregs, and not only willing but actually did, proved conclusively that Satan was wrong, and secured the universe.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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