John, then how do you explain all the passages where God commands us to expel our sinful habits? Are you going easy on sin? What is so evil about searching ourselves, seeking sinful habits that need crucifying?

2 Corinthians
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Psalm
139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
139:24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

DA 466
In the change that takes place when the soul surrenders to Christ, there is the highest sense of freedom. The expulsion of sin is the act of the soul itself. True, we have no power to free ourselves from Satan's control; but when we desire to be set free from sin, and in our great need cry out for a power out of and above ourselves, the powers of the soul are imbued with the divine energy of the Holy Spirit, and they obey the dictates of the will in fulfilling the will of God. {DA 466.4}

MM, if you read what John wrote, in his very last post, it explains your question. There's no need for him to explain anything; he already explained it. Just read his post!

Mike, I dont rely on your quote, Ive read the entire chapter.

MM: Are you going easy on sin?

No, rather I am speaking that which ends the continuation of sin.

MM: What is so evil about searching ourselves, seeking sinful habits that need crucifying?

Self-righteousness!

2 Corinthians
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

This is the point. We are admonished to examine whether we be “in faith” (not whether we have some sin-habit). We are admonished to know how Christ is in us (not whether we have some sin-habit). To start looking for sin is to become a reprobate.

Psalm
139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
139:24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

1) At what time in his life did David pray this?
2) David did not say anything about searching himself; nor did he say that God was to reveal sin to him, but that God would lead him in the way everlasting. God knows the way to glory from where we are.
Have you seen and become a partaker of the glory of God?
Have you seen and become a partaker of all the glory of God?

The more we see the glory of God, the more we see that the essence of sin is: “looking for fault”.

• 1Pe 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
  2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

John, it sounds like you are soft on sin. The Bible reflects the fact that God is focused on saving us from our sinful habits. True, the law and love of God causes us to realize that the only way we can be saved from our sinful habits is by focusing on Jesus, but this is no way means God is soft on sin. I agree that God's law and love is what motivates us to abide in Jesus, to mature in the fruits of the Spirit.

Ridding ourselves of sinful cultivated habits, however, is as important as maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. Resisting sinning, overcoming as Jesus overcame, is a key aspect of salvation. Not sinning is important. Not crucifying Christ afresh is essential.

It does not sound like you agree. "To start looking for sin is to become a reprobate." Again, to be successful, we must focus on Jesus. We cannot resist sinning by focusing on not sinning. Sin loses all its power and appeal at the cross.

Matthew
1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

John
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

1 John
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1 John
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

JB: To start looking for sin is to become a reprobate.

MM: The following insight disagrees with your declaration:

TDG 83
We are not to pass on indifferently. We must inquire into the character of our thoughts and feelings, our tempers, purposes, words, and deeds. We are not safe unless we are constantly and successfully warring against our own sinful corruptions. We must consider whether we are an example of Christian holiness, whether we are in the faith. Unless we search diligently examining our hearts in the light of God's Word, self-love will prompt to a much better opinion of ourselves than we should have. {TDG 83.3}

Gal 2:15 We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we sought to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, is Christ a minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build up again those things which I destroyed, I prove myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law died unto the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:
Rom 3:20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.

MM:John, it sounds like you are soft on sin.

You should read more carefully! John wrote:



This sounds like 1888 all over again. Jones and Waggoner presented justification by faith in Christ, and the old guard thought they were "soft on sin." But they were doing exactly what John has said, which was to speak of that which ends the continuation of sin, which is faith, not some theory based on sinful habits.

MM:The Bible reflects the fact that God is focused on saving us from our sinful habits.

God is focused on saving our souls by giving us Christ. The Bible reflects God's emphasis on revealing Himself to us. We are saved by faith.

Please consider the following SOP quote:



The whole purpose of Christ's mission on earth was the revelation of God. This is what is important. Not the revelation of sinful habits, but of God.

When one knows Christ, the heart is converted, and sinful habits die away as Christ becomes master. This is not "soft on sin," but the only way out!

Thomas, again, it sounds like you agree with me, that is, that the Holy Spirit, through a revelation of the law and love of God, saves us from our sinful habits, saves us so that we can be like Jesus, so that we can mature in the fruits of the Spirit. The passages you quoted indicate you believe it.

Tom, again, I agree with John that the Holy Spirit saves us from our sinful habits through a revelation of the law and love of God in the person of Jesus Christ. You and I, however, disagree as to the timing and degree we are saved from our sinful habits at the moment we complete the process of conversion.

John, Tom, and Thomas, it would help me if you answered the following questions in your own words and then use inspired quotes to substantiate your answers. It would also be helpful if you answered them the way you think I would answer them. I suspect we are misunderstanding each other. Thank you.

1. When do we begin the "patient, protracted process" (DA 172) of conversion?

2. When do we complete the "patient, protracted process" of conversion?

3. When do we experience the miracle of rebirth in relation to completing the "patient, protracted process" of conversion?

4. Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why?

5. What do "I die daily" (1 Cor 15:31) and "stay converted" (OHC 215) mean in light of completing the process of conversion and walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man as a born again believer?

6. Is true, genuine conversion and rebirth common or "rare" (6BC 1075) among people professing to be Christians? If not, why not?