Christ's being slain was a possibility from when God created man. This is what this is addressing; God's character revealed in Christ, the overriding theme of Scripture. The quote I gave from Education explains the principle well. Before the need arose, God was ready with a solution.

We see from the description in, I think it's The Story of Redemption, that even after having had a plan ready in case it were necessary, God still had to struggle with the decision to let Christ go, as the angel explained. So even *after* sin arose, there was *still* the possibility that Christ wouldn't come. *Before* sin arose, there was the possibility that the remedy wouldn't be necessary.

Scripture speaks of the mystery which was hidden from eternal ages, which is the mystery of God's love, of the gift of God's Son for sin. Had sin not come about, the mystery would have remained hidden, but it would nevertheless have been true. God's love didn't change when sin made it necessary to reveal the mystery of Christ crucified; even without the revelation, the description of God's love (the lamb slain from the foundation of the world) would have been true (just not revealed).

In considering this phrase, we can take into account that God sent His Son at the risk of failure and eternal loss, and that all heaven was imperiled for our redemption. Since we know these things are true, we know that there is conditionality involved in the future.

Certainly one cannot extend this very far, but if you're correct, at least in the case of determining someone's eternal destiny, our "omniscience" is the same as God's. You have Him saying nothing more than what I've been teaching for many years: If you're faithful you'll be fine.

But let's consider some more verses: Be thou faithful unto death and I will give thee a crown of life. He who endures to the end will be saved.

God is clear that salvation comes only to those who are faithful to the end. A good start does not outweigh a bad end.

1. Is it possible to be in a "saved" condition, but turn away from it later in life?
2. Can God tell if a person will turn away later, or if he will be faithful to the end?
3. How could He be so sure that Enoch and Elijah were OK to translate, but not Moses?
4. Is my "if" as insightful as His?

These are good questions. I've thought a lot about them. I can't say too much, except that I think it's possible to be "sealed in the truth," sort of like the unpardonable sin in reverse. It's not that one can't be lost, because we never lose free will (even in heaven, we could be lost if we wanted to), but that one won't. But I don't believe God ever communicates this to us, because even in the end time the 144,000 do not know that probation has closed. What they do know is they have, above all else, a desire that God's character be known and vindicated.

Heere is a thought.

With the Lord, the default position is that we are received of Him. One has to prove oneself to be not of faith to be lost.

I agree with that perspective, John.

I agree. Isn't that what the sealing is all about? Settling into the truth such that one is immovable?

Again we see here the distinction between what can be done and what will be done. I agree that we will always be free to choose to sin. But I think we agree that God will only give everlasting life to those who He knows will not choose to sin.



This hearkens back to an old line of discussion. Since God knows who will not choose to sin, does the fact that He does not communicate that knowledge to us change reality? Does His knowledge of what we will do limit the possibilities of what we can do? Does His foreknowledge of my future choice remove my ability to choose?

I can say, "If one is faithful, he will be saved." It will be 100% accurate. But I really have no idea which individuals will take that conditional branch.

I believe God has better insight into our characters, and has a really good idea which conditional branch each one of us will take.

I agree. Isn't that what the sealing is all about? Settling into the truth such that one is immovable?

Yes. I almost used that language, in fact.

Again we see here the distinction between what can be done and what will be done. I agree that we will always be free to choose to sin. But I think we agree that God will only give everlasting life to those who He knows will not choose to sin.

What do you mean by "give everlasting lift to those He knows will not choose to sin? As soon as a person is converted, they have everlasting life. Your statement would translate to "once saved, always saved." If this is involving the "sealed into truth" and "cannot be moved" idea, I can see this, but not if it means simply making a decision for Christ at some point in one's life. However, I think your statement is likely true, with the meaning that I think you have in mind.

Originally Posted By: Tom Ewall
But I don't believe God ever communicates this to us, because even in the end time the 144,000 do not know that probation has closed. What they do know is they have, above all else, a desire that God's character be known and vindicated.


This hearkens back to an old line of discussion. Since God knows who will not choose to sin, does the fact that He does not communicate that knowledge to us change reality?

No. God doesn't communicate this to us because it's not useful or helpful, either to us, or anyone else. He gives us witness through the Holy Spirit that we are sons of God, and that is enough.

Does His knowledge of what we will do limit the possibilities of what we can do?

No. This isn't possible.

Does His foreknowledge of my future choice remove my ability to choose?

No. Also not possible. What *could* remove you ability to choose, although in a logical sense, not in the sense of force, would be if the future were such that God could view it like a T.V. rerun. In this case, if there were only one possible future, then, of course, your choice would be limited to that one future. You would perceive many possible choices available, but your perception would be wrong.

In this instance, I used "everlasting life" in a literal sense; i.e., life that never ends. IOW, only those who God knows will not choose to sin are the ones who will continue to live forever; everyone else will die. And of course, only those who are faithful to the end will be given the finishing touch of immortality.