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Re: True Conversion Described [Re: vastergotland] #86697
03/20/07 03:19 PM
03/20/07 03:19 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
You're right, Tom, "converted" can mean living up to the light they have received. But I am referring to "converted" in the ultimate, completed sense, in the Matthew 28:19, 20 sense. Do you see a difference?


I see a difference in the way you use "converted" and everyone else, including Ellen White, uses it. It makes it confusing to carry on a conversation when you have your own meaning for words, and everyone else has another. What happens is people think they are disagreeing about certain concepts, when really what's going on is a lack of understanding that you are using "converted" differently than everyone else.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: True Conversion Described [Re: vastergotland] #86699
03/20/07 03:28 PM
03/20/07 03:28 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Where is that "SDA sin list" you speak of? I'd like to see it. Thanks.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: True Conversion Described [Re: asygo] #86702
03/20/07 03:32 PM
03/20/07 03:32 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: asygo
Where is that "SDA sin list" you speak of? I'd like to see it. Thanks.
I think it might be mostly unwritten. But it is there, for how else would so many SDA have got the idea that what God expressedly allowed in the bible would have somehow turned into sin given enough time.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: True Conversion Described [Re: vastergotland] #86716
03/20/07 09:57 PM
03/20/07 09:57 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thomas, what Ellen "list" are you talking about? and how does it relate to Matthew 28:19, 20?

Re: True Conversion Described [Re: Mountain Man] #86719
03/20/07 10:08 PM
03/20/07 10:08 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, this thread opened with the following description of conversion and rebirth:

 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The following description of true conversion disproves the idea advocated by certain members on MSDAOL that people are converted and born again with their their sinful habits unrevealed, unconfessed, and uncrucified.

AA 445-447
At the time of their conversion and baptism the Colossian believers pledged themselves to put away beliefs and practices that had hitherto been a part of their lives, and to be true to their allegiance to Christ. In his letter, Paul reminded them of this, and entreated them not to forget that in order to keep their pledge they must put forth constant effort against the evils that would seek for mastery over them. "If ye then be risen with Christ," he said, "seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." {AA 475.3}

"If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17. Through the power of Christ, men and women have broken the chains of sinful habit. They have renounced selfishness. The profane have become reverent, the drunken sober, the profligate pure. Souls that have borne the likeness of Satan have become transformed into the image of God. This change is in itself the miracle of miracles. A change wrought by the Word, it is one of the deepest mysteries of the Word. We cannot understand it; we can only believe, as declared by the Scriptures, it is "Christ in you, the hope of glory." {AA 476.1}

When the Spirit of God controls mind and heart, the converted soul breaks forth into a new song; for he realizes that in his experience the promise of God has been fulfilled, that his transgression has been forgiven, his sin covered. He has exercised repentance toward God for the violation of the divine law, and faith toward Christ, who died for man's justification. "Being justified by faith," he has "peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1. {AA 476.2}

But because this experience is his, the Christian is not therefore to fold his hands, content with that which has been accomplished for him. He who has determined to enter the spiritual kingdom will find that all the powers and passions of unregenerate nature, backed by the forces of the kingdom of darkness, are arrayed against him. Each day he must renew his consecration, each day do battle with evil. Old habits, hereditary tendencies to wrong, will strive for the mastery, and against these he is to be ever on guard, striving in Christ's strength for victory. {AA 476.3}

The following excerpts teach us that people do not complete the process of converting from not obeying everything Jesus commanded to obeying everything He commanded.

"Through the power of Christ, men and women have broken the chains of sinful habit."

"He who has determined to enter the spiritual kingdom will find that all the powers and passions of unregenerate nature, backed by the forces of the kingdom of darkness, are arrayed against him."

"Each day he must renew his consecration, each day do battle with evil."

"Old habits, hereditary tendencies to wrong, will strive for the mastery, and against these he is to be ever on guard, striving in Christ's strength for victory."

Re: True Conversion Described [Re: vastergotland] #86723
03/20/07 11:03 PM
03/20/07 11:03 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
how else would so many SDA have got the idea that what God expressedly allowed in the bible would have somehow turned into sin given enough time.


I must have totally missed that thread because I have no idea what sins you're talking about. Please give an example. Thanks.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: True Conversion Described [Re: Mountain Man] #86734
03/21/07 08:17 AM
03/21/07 08:17 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Thomas, what Ellen "list" are you talking about? and how does it relate to Matthew 28:19, 20?
Here is the example I was refering to. Im sure I could find some more, but the effort isnt worth it.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: True Conversion Described [Re: vastergotland] #86755
03/21/07 03:44 PM
03/21/07 03:44 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thomas, are you assuming the counsel regarding meat eating is something Sister White made up?

Re: True Conversion Described [Re: Mountain Man] #86763
03/21/07 07:47 PM
03/21/07 07:47 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Nope, and neither am I assuming that the transfer of this advice to the sin list is something Ellen did. Her followers on the other hand, them I can believe many things about.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: True Conversion Described [Re: vastergotland] #86770
03/21/07 10:24 PM
03/21/07 10:24 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
I agree that there are those who add to what God has said. But unless Luther was a closet sabbatarian, I don't think he did everything God commanded.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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