This would be a good discussion for a topic. Btw, I agree with your comments before this point.

I don't believe God chooses the best moment for people to die. This can happen, for those who are followers of God, but many people die well before God would have them to die, even Christians. For example, James White comes to mind.

We live in a world of sin, where people kill others and kill themselves, either intentionally by suicide, or by abusing their health. I'm not understanding how you could characterize a person's death in these circumstances as God's choosing the best moment for them to die. I believe these infants died not because God determined that was the best moment for them to die, but because an evil man killed them.

For example, consider the case of infants who are killed, like say those who were killed by Herod in his attempt to kill Christ. Under your theory, as I understand it, all of these infants died at what was the best moment for them to die. Not a one of them would have been better off had they lived. I don't see how that's possible.

Another example would be the holocaust. I think that 6 million Jews did, not because God determined this was the best moment for them to die, but because an evil man killed them. Surely some of them would have been better off had they lived (I would say probably almost all of them).



Certainly God does intervene in people's lives, allowing them the opportunity to accept Christ. This actually happened to me. However, I think if you assert this always happens, this leads to untenable positions.

I'm curious. Do you believe that everything that happens is God's will? (active, not permissive).

I must admit that I am not certain whether or not I can agree with Rosangela's statement, therefore, perhaps, she can expand on this by providing some EGW and/or Bible quotes to substantiate her statement.

I did a group of words search and came up with the following EGW quote:

This tells me that the devil was allowed to cut short the life of John the Baptist, therefore, it appears that the devil was only able to use people to do this solely on the basis that, for whatever reason, God permitted it to happen.

This is true in general, isn't it? That is, only things which God permits to happen can happen.

Then there is also the case of Job where God basically told the devil that he could do this and this to him, but he couldn't kill him.

That’s the point. Then those who die are those who God permits to die. We know this is true of God’s children, but I believe it’s also true of others. I’ve heard testimonies, for instance, of ex-criminals, relating occasions on which they were shot at in a gunfight but the bullets were inexplicably diverted, and some time after this they had a contact with someone who explained to them the gospel and they accepted Christ. It’s clear that God protected them; so He didn’t permit them to die at that moment.

Rosangela:That’s the point. Then those who die are those who God permits to die.

But how does this communicate any useful information? Only those win the World Cup that God permits. Only those have infected teeth that God permits. Only those get 8 hours sleep that God permits.

Certainly it's true that nothing happens that God permits. But how would it follow from this that God chooses the best moment for a person to die any more than God chooses the best moment for a soccer team to win the world cup or for a person to have an infected tooth or for a person to get 8 hours of sleep?

People die of heart attacks because they eat poorly and don't get enough exercise. Teams win world cups because they train hard, have talent, and get some lucky breaks. People get infected teeth and 8 hours sleep for medical reasons. Why would one read into these events God's choosing the best moment for these things to occur?

I mean the best moment in relation to one’s good and sometimes in relation to the good of others.
The following texts may throw additional light on the subject:

“By saying, ‘Must we fetch you water out of this rock?’ Moses virtually said to the people that they were correct in believing that he himself was doing the mighty works that had been done in their behalf. This made it necessary for God to prove to Israel that his admission was not founded on fact. . . . To dispel forever from the minds of the Israelites the idea that a man was leading them, God found it necessary to allow their leader to die before they entered the land of Canaan” (MS 69, 1912). {1BC 1116.1}

“After you have done all you can for the sufferer, place the case in the hands of the Lord. It may be that death will be for His glory. The Lord permits some to die who for months and years have lingered in sickness. He sees fit to give His suffering ones rest.”--Manuscript 67, 1899. {2SM 348.1}

“Christ had not only the loved ones at Bethany to think of; He had the training of His disciples to consider. They were to be His representatives to the world, that the Father's blessing might include all. For their sake He permitted Lazarus to die. Had He restored him from illness to health, the miracle that is the most positive evidence of His divine character would not have been performed.” {SD 92.3}

“Sister T loves this world. She is naturally selfish. She has suffered much with bodily infirmities. God permitted this affliction to come upon her, and yet would not permit Satan to take her life. God designed through the furnace of affliction to loosen her grasp upon earthly treasures. Through suffering alone could this be done. She is one of those whose systems have been poisoned by drugs. By taking these she has ignorantly made herself what she is; yet God did not suffer her life to be taken, but lengthened her years of probation and suffering that she might become sanctified through the truth, be purified, made white and tried, and, through the furnace of affliction, lose her dross, and become more precious than fine gold, even than the golden wedge of Ophir. Love of the world has become so deeply rooted in the hearts of this brother and sister that it will require a severe trial to remove it. Dear brother and sister, you lack devotion to God. You are insane in regard to worldly things. The world has power to conform your mind to it, while the spiritual and heavenly do not bear with sufficient weight to transform the mind. {2T 184.2} ... This is one of the reasons that, as a people, we are so sickly and so many are falling into their graves. The covetous are among us. Lovers of the world, also those who have stinted the laborer in his hire, are among us. ... Just in this grudging manner do they put into the treasury of God. The man in the parable had not where to bestow his goods, and the Lord cut short his unprofitable life. So will He deal with many.” {2T 198.1}

Certainly God does this at times. I gave myself as an example. But because God sometimes takes action to permit one to be killed, or not, does not mean that He always does so, and certainly not that people only die when God would like. For example, James White died before God wanted Him to.

People die all the time because of their bad habits, when God would have them live longer. Because of our bad health habits, we can cut our lives short, as James White did. This is nothing God chose. God will not ordinarily commit miracles to prolong our lives in spite of the unhealthy things we do. Our death is this case is not due to God's choosing the best moment, but due to our own bad choices.

Does God care for some and not for all? Does He give opportunities for some and not for all?
He has in view our good. James White sure could have lived longer and been useful to God, but he died saved, and God permitted it. The life of others is cut short by their bad habits, but God uses their last sickness to lead them to Him. Or, like the sister mentioned in the last EGW quote, God may choose to prolongue a little longer their lives, so that their sickness may purify them. Still the life of others is cut short by their bad habits, but their life was an unprofitable one, so nothing is lost by their life being cut short.