No, MM. I'm basing it on the totality of what he wrote.

If one reads to understand what someone is trying to say, rather than to look for things to find fault with, it's easier to understand what a poster is saying.

Again, here is what Arnold wrote:


And here is what you posted:


Arnold is talking about known sinning and you seem to be referring to sins of ignorance. Arnold agreed that a born again person can commit sins of ignorance, but he emphatically believes – “All who are born of God never indulge in known sins, not even once.”

From what I know about your theology I suspect you disagree with Arnold’s thoughts on believers never committing a known sin, not even once, after they have experienced the miracle of rebirth.

I based what I wrote about Arnold's theology on what he was writing in the thread. Not just that one statements, but the other posts as well. Evidently I understood him correctly, because he agreed that I had interpreted him correctly.

I'm not perceiving, regarding this point, that I differ much from what Arnold is saying, in terms of his thought. That is, I would state things a bit differently than he would, but not in a material way which would alter his main points. So I haven't felt constrained to comment on what he has written.

Here's the history of Arnold's "unqualified statement":


I'm pretty sure Arnold is saying born again believers never commit known sins, not even once. When I asked, “Arnold, you seem to be suggesting that people who are truly born again never ever knowingly sin again. Is that right?” He responded with, “That is right.” He doesn’t agree with you that born again believers do commit known sins and then repent.

At any rate, I suspect he will eventually answer for himself.

Yes, he probably will answer for himself. But he agreed with my explanation of what he was saying, so you might want to take a look at that. I didn't find what he was saying at all difficult to understand. I think you're looking to much to parse words rather than just trying to understand what he's saying.

I just sent Arnold a PM asking him to respond.

Guys, I'm on vacation. Will have more time next week. But a quickie for now.

Whoever is born of God cannot sin. When faced with the opportunity to commit known sin, there are two possible choices:

1. keep the flesh crucified and walk in the Spirit
2. crucify Christ afresh and walk in the flesh.

One choice is the "child of God" choice; the other is the "child of Satan" choice. One option must be chosen, and the other rejected. The choices are comprehensive, and mutually exclusive.

I say that he who is born of God cannot ever commit known sin because to commit known sin requires giving up being born of God.

A: I say that he who is born of God cannot ever commit known sin because to commit known sin requires giving up being born of God.

MM: Arnold, I'm still not 100% sure I understand what you are saying. Please forgive me. It sounds like you are saying born again believers never commit known sins because they are born again and once believers experience the miracle of rebirth they cannot stop being born again.

However, wouldn't it be more accurate to say - So long as born again believers are abiding in Jesus, so long as they are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, so long as they are actively and aggressively partaking of the divine nature they do not and cannot commit a known sin.

Also, do you think people stop being born again when they stop choosing to abide in Jesus during a moment of weakness and commit a known sin? Or, do you think they temporarily stop behaving like a born again believer when they are not abiding in Jesus, and that repentance restores them to being able to behave like a born again believer?

PS - I hope you are enjoying your vacation.

My vacation was so fun that I need a vacation to recover from it!



That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm actually saying the opposite.

People can and do stop being born again. Every time they knowingly choose to sin, they are forfeiting their rebirth. That's why one cannot both be born of God and knowingly sin, because one must choose either of the two mutually exclusive options - never both.

Here's another strong statement: Many people mistakenly think they can knowingly sin once and maintain their saved condition.



I agree with that 100%.



People stop being born again the moment they separate from Jesus. Whether it is a moment of weakness or a lifetime of wickedness, the problem is fundamentally the same - separation from Jesus.

And when one is separated from Jesus, there is no rebirth, no salvation, no life.

It is not a matter of behavior, but a matter of nature. When we stop abiding in Christ, we start abiding in the flesh. Essentially, we go back to being slaves of the Old Man. Our behavior is merely the outward manifestation of our allegiance to our master.

So, beneath the issue of stopping behaving like a born again believer, the willful sinner actually stops being a born again believer. Instead, he becomes a dead again unbeliever.

Whether or not the condition is temporary depends on the sinner's repentance. And repentance includes sorrow for and forsaking of sin. IOW, repentance means dying to sin. And when one dies to sin, he lives to God.

Once again, Paul's words ring in our ears: How can we who died to sin live any longer in it? Answer: We cannot.

It sounds to me, Arnold, that you are basically saying the same thing as MM. Basically both of you believe that a person can go in and out of being in a saved position multiple times a day or hour. You commit a sin (known sin) and are lost. Repent, and you are saved again. Sin again, and lost again. Repent again, and saved again. And so forth.

Am I misunderstanding either one of you on this point?