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Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: Will] #88398
04/29/07 04:24 AM
04/29/07 04:24 AM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
Will, thanks for the text of Rev. 7. It must be the text I have been searching for, as so far this is the only listing of the tribes that has Dan missing, as well as Ephriam, one of Joseph's sons, and "birthright replacement heir", Ephriam.

I see that that the scripture is talking about the 144,000, rather than the gates of the New Jerusalem. This listing seems a bit unusual as Joseph as well as his other son, and "birthright replacement heir", Manasses are both listed. Usually if Joseph is listed his two sons aren't as they would be included under him.

When the tribes split, Judah and Benjamin were the two tribes together along with the Levites, Scripture appears to refer to them as the nation of Judah or at times Jacob.

The 10 tribes were referred to in Scripture as Israel or Ephraim.

 Quote:
Revelation 7 (King James Version)
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: Will] #88399
04/29/07 05:00 AM
04/29/07 05:00 AM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: Will
Here's an idea. The verses for the tribes falling, BUT I did find an error in the chapter.
You see the author said that When the tabernacle was built in the wilderness, God especially endowed Aholiab of he tribe of Dan with wisdom to devise cunning works of gold etc etc. This is not correct because it was Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur of the tribe of Judah.
This is on page 374, and the verses used for it is Ex.31:3-6, so keep that part in mind.
God Bless,
Will

It appears to me from reading Exodus 31:2-6, that the author was partially correct, as verse six says: I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee. Perhaps a noted difference regarding the two mentioned men is that, the Lord called Bezaleel by name? Bezaleel was also filled with the spirit of God. In other workmen, including Aholiab, the Lord put in their hearts wisdom, to make all that was commanded by the Lord.

From reading Judges, the tribe of Dan did seem to like to make images of gold to worship.

 Quote:
Exodus 31:2-6 (King James Version)
2See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah:

3And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

4To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,

5And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship.

6And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;

Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: Will] #88400
04/29/07 05:53 AM
04/29/07 05:53 AM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: Will
The book is called "The Cross and it's shadow" by Stephen Haskell, the chapter is called Lost Tribes, but apparently it is not mentioned in the online book and even that chapter is not available. What I can do is type up the highlights of each of the tribes problem. I will have to summarize it somehow, but that is an option.
God Bless,
Will

This chapter The One Hundred and Forty-Four Thousand Chapter 49 in "The Cross and It's Shadow", seems to correspond with Rev 7, regarding the 144, 000. Yes I see from the table of contents that there in no Lost Tribes chapter listed. What is the chapter number for Lost Tribes in the hard copy of the Book?

 Quote:
The Cross and Its Shadow, SECTION IX. The Tribes of Israel, The second paragraph from the chapter 49: The redeemed of the Lord are an innumerable company, which no man can number; but among that multitude is one separate company, who are numbered and are designated by their number,–one hundred and forty-four thousand. This company is composed of twelve different divisions, each containing twelve thousand redeemed souls; and each division bears the name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel. (Rev. 7:4-8) The list given in Revelation varies somewhat from the list of the twelve sons of Jacob, (1 Chr. 2:1,2) as Dan is omitted, and the extra division is given the name of Manasseh, Joseph's eldest son.

Last edited by crater; 04/29/07 05:53 AM. Reason: spelling
Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: crater] #88403
04/29/07 11:48 AM
04/29/07 11:48 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
The chapter for The Lost Tribes is the very next chapter, chapter 50 (chapter L using Roman Numerals, as the Hard Copy shows it as). It is the very last chapter of the book.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: Daryl] #88405
04/29/07 11:56 AM
04/29/07 11:56 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Upon comparing the online index to the one in the book, I noticed they left out the following chapters under Section IX:

37 - Reuben
38 - Simeon
39 - Levi
40 - Judah
41 - Naphtali
42 - Gad
43 - Asher
44 - Issachar
45 - Zebulun
46 - Joseph
47 - Benjamin
48 - Manasseh
50 - The Lost Tribes

I wonder why they left out all of the above chapters?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: Daryl] #88408
04/29/07 02:12 PM
04/29/07 02:12 PM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
Now, this book The Cross and Its Shadow is becoming more intriguing, with the "mystery" of why the 13 chapters were excluded!

I notice that the author left out the tribes of Ephriam and Dan, but perhaps the chapter entitled "The Lost Tribes" is referring to them?

The home page seems to be The Pioneer Adventist Writings. I don't see an indication of who's site it is.

Perhaps someone didn't like what he said about the tribes? Then I have to question, how many of the other books that are listed are abridged or something?

Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: crater] #88409
04/29/07 02:30 PM
04/29/07 02:30 PM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: crater
Now, this book The Cross and Its Shadow is becoming more intriguing, with the "mystery" of why the 13 chapters were excluded!

I notice that the author left out the tribes of Ephriam and Dan, but perhaps the chapter entitled "The Lost Tribes" is referring to them?

The home page seems to be The Pioneer Adventist Writings. I don't see an indication of who's site it is.

Perhaps someone didn't like what he said about the tribes? Then I have to question, how many of the other books that are listed are abridged or something?


I just did a little more "snooping" the The Author and designer of the Website is Ulrike Unruh, an SDA living in Canada.

The actual homepage is Adventist Biblical Truths.
 Quote:
The purpose of this website is to show the Biblical, Christ centered truths of Adventist beliefs. Special attention is given to the great plan of salvation in Christ, whose ministry is illustrated through the sanctuary and issues involving God's people at the end of time.


Looks like a good site.

Last edited by crater; 04/29/07 02:41 PM.
Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: crater] #88414
04/29/07 03:29 PM
04/29/07 03:29 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Yes, the chapter on The Lost Tribes is referring to the tribes of Ephriam and Dan.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: crater] #89911
06/18/07 07:03 PM
06/18/07 07:03 PM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States

The Cross and It's Shadow It looks like the complete book is on this site. It has a chapter 50 entitle The Lost Tribes.

Re: The twelve patriarchs of the Old Testament [Re: crater] #89946
06/20/07 01:43 PM
06/20/07 01:43 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
for this link that includes Chapter 50. \:\)


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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