Tom, do your thoughts regarding the last six commandments take in account what Paul wrote about Gentiles?

Romans
2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
2:15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

PS - Are you planning to address the points I raised in my last post to you (several posts above)?

MM: Also, I agree with you that Moses would not have been lost had he died before he was able to repent. I believe God imputes repentance in cases where people would have repented had they not died immediately.

TE: Good! I'm glad we agree on this. …

MM: I didn't realize we agreed on God imputing repentance in cases involving people who would have repented had they not died.

TE: You’re right. I missed the second sentence. I agree with the first sentence.

Do you disagree that God imputes repentance and salvation in such cases based on the general trend of their lives?
The use of the word “imputes” is what I’m reacting to. I don’t really know what you have in mind, but it sounds like it’s referring to something God arbitrarily does rather than simply recognizing the reality of the character of the one’s involved. That is, there is no need for God to “impute” repentance or salvation, as if those were things which were needed but didn’t exist in the case of the ones being spoken of. He simply knows and recognizes their character.
Quote:
MM: Also, the "occasional good deeds" Sister White wrote about in SC 58 seems to refer to the fruits of the Spirit, rather than worldly good deeds.

TE: Good deeds are deeds that are good. “Worldly” doesn’t enter into it. Calling them fruits of the Spirit seems like it could be misleading, since that phrase usually applies to people who are saved.

The SC 58 quote concerning “good deeds” is clearly a reference to fruits of the Spirit, not ordinary deeds that appear good on the surface but are nothing more than beautiful sin. The “character” that she speaks of, which is revealed, is that of a born again believer abiding in Jesus. The “misdeeds” is what happens when believers are not abiding in Jesus. Such “misdeeds” include “all our righteousnesses” or worldly good deeds.
That doesn’t really make sense to what’s she’s saying, does it? The occasional good deed would, obviously, be referring to someone who normally doesn’t do good deeds; i.e. someone not saved. She is saying the an unsaved person may occasionally do a good deed, but that is not what the character is set by. That is, the character is not set by either occasional good deeds (unsaved person) or occasional misdeed (saved person).
If you make ‘good deed’ mean a fruit of the Spirit, then that makes it apply to a saved person. But a saved person is not someone who occasionally does good deeds, but rather one who occasionally does misdeeds.

SC 57, 58
If the heart has been renewed by the Spirit of God, the life will bear witness to the fact. While we cannot do anything to change our hearts or to bring ourselves into harmony with God; while we must not trust at all to ourselves or our good works, our lives will reveal whether the grace of God is dwelling within us. A change will be seen in the character, the habits, the pursuits. The contrast will be clear and decided between what they have been and what they are. The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts. {SC 57.2}
Quote:
TE: So to put this in the abiding language, what causes one to move out of abiding in Jesus is to cherish sin, not simply to commit it. One could commit a sin of ignorance, which would have no conscious effect on the one committing it, or commit a known sin, without cherishing it. If one refuses to respond to the wooing of the Holy Spirit to repent, that's where I think the abiding in Jesus part stops. So in Moses' case, he never stopped abiding in Jesus.

MM: I'm not sure about this. Neglecting to abide in Jesus is as much as sin as the sins that follow. I suppose it would fall under the category of sins of omission. What do you think?

Sin is defined by the law, that is, the 10 commandments. It needn’t be more complicated than that. Love to God, and love to man. Moses lost his temper, violating the commandment, “Thou shall not kill,” (as Jesus explained in the sermon on the mount). It wasn’t a premeditated or cherished sin, but one that “came out,” so to speak.

TE: People don’t normally think in terms of doing something to abide in Jesus. If one loves God, it’s natural to think about Him, to want to know Him better, to do His will and so forth. It’s not so much that Moses did something to not abide in Jesus, but he got tempted, and lost his temper. That’s what I think.

Moses did not choose to continue to abide in Jesus and that’s why he struck the rock twice in anger.

Moses was tempted to lose his temper and did so. There’s no need to make it more complicated than this.

Abiding in Jesus requires a conscious, deliberate, continuous choice, which we must make every second of every day.

Not unless you have a different meaning in mind (which I think is likely) for “conscious, deliberate, continuous choice”. Our attention is often demanded by the things of life, like avoiding an oncoming car. I would characterize our abiding in Christ as an attitude, a disposition, our consciousness of which varies depending on what’s happening.

Neglecting to continue to choose to abide in Jesus is choosing not to abide in Him. It’s our default choice. Abiding in Him requires diligence and choice. It is not by default, as you seem to be implying. There is nothing natural about it. Sinning is natural.

This is sounding like righteousness by works. We remain righteous by our works, our diligence and choice to abide in Jesus? I didn’t say or imply anything about “by default.” That’s an idea which popped into your head. You’d have to specify something I wrote which gave you this impression in order for me to comment. It’s certainly not an idea of mine.

Therefore, if we neglect to choose to abide in Jesus, we separate ourselves from Him. Being separated from Jesus means we are sinning. There is no neutral time period between separating from Jesus and committing a known sin where we are not sinning. Consequently, neglecting to continue to choose to abide in Jesus is a sin itself. I’m surprised you disagree.

I don’t really know what you’re saying. My disagreement is more along the lines of the way you are thinking of things than what you are actually communicating. That is, you seem to have an unnecessarily complicated way of understanding the gospel, and understanding what God expects or requires of us.

I think it’s very simple. The Gospel is that God is not at all like Satan has pictured Him to be. He is not cruel, arbitrary, or selfish. He has the best interested of His creatures in mind. He is not a respecter of persons. He is kind, merciful, and compassionate; only doing good to others, and only desiring what’s best for them. In short, He is just like Jesus Christ.

He expects that we should love one another as He has loved us. That’s a tall order, of course, but as we meditate upon Him, we become like Him.

God would have us learn what He is really like, what the principles of His government are really like, and share that good news with others.

Moses was tempted to lose his temper, and did so. In so doing, he was not loving others as God loved him. This was sin.

It’s simple. There’s no need to add anything about neglecting to abide in Jesus, or such like.

TE: It’s simple. There’s no need to add anything about neglecting to abide in Jesus, or such like.

MM: Here's what Jesus said about abiding in Him:

John
15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full.
15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Has anyone asked the question whether one can be received into the Kingdom of God without being "Truly Converted"? I say this in light of the comment i read regarding Luther and for all of those who have died outside of the Adventist faith. Also, Sister White tells us that Angels guard the tomb of William Miller yet he did not at the end of his life accept the teachings of the Adventist Church. My question may have been answered all ready in the thread as i did not read everything written. if so, my apologies and carry on.