This statement, particularly the last sentence, is often used to support a certain view of the Christian's life. This view says that "occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds" have no real bearing on one's salvation; the important thing is the "tendency of the habitual words and acts." It is sometimes illustrated by something that looks like what stockbrokers use to graph a company's increasing value: there's a line that zig-zags up and down, but the overall trend of the line is upward. The theory proposes that as long as the trend is upward, we're in a saved condition. Even if there are minor slips and falls into sin here and there, that does not mean one slips out of his saved condition.

The prime example used is Moses hitting the rock. He had been very good for 40 years, leading the stiff-necked Israelites to the border of the Promised Land. He almost made it, but he fell in a moment of weakness. The "proof" that he was still justified and "saved" is that he was resurrected and taken to Heaven soon after his death.

Is this a reasonable theory? Are we still in a saved condition even as we fall into sin now and then, as long as we don't fall too often or too far?

My answer is NO. I do not believe the justified life is a zig-zag line of victory puntuated by defeats, but a line of continual victory. I believe that God is able to keep us from falling, and any instance of a fall into sin is evidence that God is not present. I believe that Moses' fall into sin corresponds to a fall from grace and a fall out of justification; he had to be justified again.

Most people I've discussed this with disagree with me. It seems very difficult to imagine a life of constant victory. But I believe that just as Jesus never yielded to temptation, so can it be with us.

Your thoughts, please. Especially those who think I'm off the track. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know it. And please include the Bible/SOP references for your premises.

The exclusion from heaven of the wicked is voluntary. Would Moses have been happy in heaven, or would he have longed to flee from it? That's going to be the question for every sentient being. "Whosoever will, may come."

Do we love God? Do we love the way He is, the way He does things? Would we be happy in His presence?

"The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts."

Arnold, I'm not so sure that this insight is talking about being lost or being saved based on our occasional good and bad deeds. Instead, it seems clear to me that she is talking about understanding the quality of ones character based on the tendency of the habitual words and acts. In other words, we can tell what a person is like based on how they normally speak and behave. It is character, not the occasional good or bad deed, that determines our future destiny. Character is the result of repetitious choices and corresponding outcomes.


Aside from the quote in SC 57, 58 I agree with what you posted regarding continual victory. Sinning is optional, not inevitable, for those who are choosing to abide in Jesus. In fact, they do not and cannot commit a known sin while they are consciously choosing to abide in Jesus.

Will one sin keep a believer out of heaven? It depends. Is it a cherished sin? If so, then, yes, it will keep them out of heaven. But was it an unintentional sin? That is, did it gush out of them spontaneously? If so, did they repent immediately? If they repent immediately, then, no, it will not keep them out of heaven. The only sin that will keep a person out of heaven is the one they refuse to confess and forsake.

What if a person dies before they can repent? For example, a believer looks up and sees a rock falling straight at him. He spontaneously utters an expletive just before the rock kills him. No time to repent. Is he lost or saved? I believe God knows the answer, and his future destiny is decided accordingly. If it was his tendency and habit to repent under similar circumstances, then I believe God will impute repentance and save him.

MM, it seems you have agreed with my assertion several times in the past that God will take everyone to heaven who would be happy there.

Who will be happy in heaven? Those who love God, and the principles of His government. Regarding the example you gave with the falling rock, does it make any sense that a person who would utter a swear word as a reflex, who would repent if given time, would not be happy in heaven, given that He loves God and the principles of His government? I can't see any sense in that.

If a person insisted upon swearing, consciously, against the prompting of the Holy Spirit, that would be another matter, although one would think that someone with a tendency to suppress the Holy Spirit in a relatively minor like this would likely be doing so in other weightier matters as well.

In John's first epistle, it seems to me John has laid out the matter very simply. Those who have the Son have life. Those who have not the Son, have not life.

Yes, Tom, we agree God will take people to heaven who will enjoy it there and be a blessing. However, this also applies to people, like infants and Paul's Gentiles (Rom 2:13-15), who have never named the name of Jesus. They have no idea they love Him and appreciate His law. The question, therefore, is - How can God be so sure people such as these will not rebel in heaven or in the New Earth?

Also, since this thread is about the SC 57, 58 quote concerning character, deeds, and salvation, what do you think? Do you agree with my last post?

Yes, Tom, we agree God will take people to heaven who will enjoy it there and be a blessing. However, this also applies to people, like infants and Paul's Gentiles (Rom 2:13-15), who have never named the name of Jesus.

Amen!

They have no idea they love Him and appreciate His law.

I'm sure they have some idea.

The question, therefore, is - How can God be so sure people such as these will not rebel in heaven or in the New Earth?

The same way He's sure about the others; He knows their character.

Also, since this thread is about the SC 57, 58 quote concerning character, deeds, and salvation, what do you think? Do you agree with my last post?

You'll have to point out what specifically you have in mind.

TE: You'll have to point out what specifically you have in mind.

I agree. I believe they are born with an instinctive knowledge of what is morally right and wrong as defined by the last six commandments.

I gave a few examples to show this isn't the case. For example, I mentioned adultery and covetousness, that latter of which Paul specifically said he would not have known but for the law, which means that, at least for Paul, it was NOT instinctive.

MM: Also, since this thread is about the SC 57, 58 quote concerning character, deeds, and salvation, what do you think? Do you agree with my last post?

TE: You'll have to point out what specifically you have in mind.