Charlene, so far what you have written is exactly what I believe. Although I might add the sins of those people in heaven still remain on the books and will not be blotted out and transferred to Satan until the return of Christ. Yes, they are covered, just not yet blotted from memory or book.

Moses and Elijah in particular hear about their sins every time they're read in the Bible. Which raises an interesting point: will we have a copy of the Bible throughout eternity? I tend to think not. Because then certain people mentioned in the Bible will remember their specific sins forever, whereas the Bible teaches that they will be blottted out of their mind. Of course we will never forget that we were once sinners saved by grace, but we are promised that we will not be able to recall the specifics. What do you think?

Yes, Mark i do believe that all of God's people have had a clear understanding of the plan of salvation in regards to His future Sacrifice, the sacrifices of Cain and Able prove this is so. The tests of Abraham and others were very severe but the ones that are called upon to reveal God's character, i think, will go even to a greater degree of testing. My reasoning is that we are still here. What is God waiting for....the work to be finished in us, the test has not been completed for His number is not made up yet. There is going to be a special people...Having ALL truth revealed and living in harmony with this "All Truth" and standing firm in His power through the most severest testing of the history of His people. I see these as the 144.000 and those that are resurected at the special resurection will join the 144.000 but will not be part of them...Ellen White was told that if she remained faithul, She would be ressurected so she could see the coming of Christ, along with the 144.000 but she was not told she would become part of the 144.000.

The 144.000 are the end time people that have disproved the devil's accusations and are victorious in all the great temptations of great persecutions and tribulations. It is a prigilege to be living in this great time in History.....It will be a privilege to "count it all joy" to be severely tested, this is what the prayers of the Saints need to be focused on....more than trying times are ahead....The greatest tests will come and only Christ in us is the hope of Glory.

Mike,
I think that is what I said.....The sins of the Saints that are in heaven are still on the books, but are just covered awaiting the "time of refreshing" to be blotted out. We are told that sins will leave scars that will be with us through out eternity....in what form i do not know...the Joy of heaven will not be deminished because of the scars but there will be some purpose or we would have not been told this.

Letters to Young Lovers-looking for Help---PG- 43
"Again my heart goes out to you. How is it with your soul? Have you a conscience void of offense toward God and man? Your associations, are they of that character to draw your mind
to God and to heavenly things, to increase in you reverence for your parents, pure and holy aspirations? Do you love the truth and the right? Or are you indulging in a creative imagination
that has no healthful influence upon the soul? Can you look back upon the last year of your life with satisfaction? Can you see a growth in spiritual power? Any low gratification, any self-indulgence, is a scar left upon the soul, and the noble powers of mind are corrupted. There may be repentance, but the soul is crippled, and will wear its scars through all time. Jesus can
wash away the sin but the soul has sustained a loss."

Don't want to get off topic. The understanding of the Blotting out of sins is very important..so correct me if this is wrong.

There are many that believe that as God forgives the repentant sins, He blots them out, so as their life progresses and the forgivness for sins continues and are blotted out...then at the last minute they fail and are lost....hell is the punishment for the last sin committed, because all other sins have been blotted out..another of Satan's lies..it might be comforting to some that hell will only hurt for one last sin.....but how sad not to know that when one is lost, all the sins that have been covered by His blood, are uncovered and the sinner will pay the "wage" of all sins he has committed.

Charlene, for several years now I've pondered that quote about the eternal effect of the scars of sin and one thing that kind of make sense to me is the idea that we will begin our walk in heaven where we left off here on earth - so whatever retarded our progress here will mean that we are that much behind for eternity.

That is, for eternity we will be one step behind where we might have been had we not sinned. Not in terms of sin, but in depth and degree of maturation. Like the difference between candle light and sunlight. As light we will shine more and more until the perfect day. Prov 4:18. Whereas eternity isn't long enough to exhaust our potential to shine brighter for Jesus. Again, the difference in intensity of light is not measured in terms of sin, but rather in terms of depth and degree of glory.

What about the Bible and eternity? Do you have thoughts on that?

Mike I like your expalation of the scars of sin...it makes sense to me. if there is more to understand, we will learn it in God's time.

I"m sorry, I do not know exactly what you mean by "eternity and the Bible." Remember , so far i have only focused on page one. can you detail for me what you mean so I may address the particular?

I'm referring to the last paragraph in my post twice back.

"Moses and Elijah in particular hear about their sins every time they're read in the Bible. Which raises an interesting point: will we have a copy of the Bible throughout eternity? I tend to think not. Because then certain people mentioned in the Bible will remember their specific sins forever, whereas the Bible teaches that they will be blottted out of their mind. Of course we will never forget that we were once sinners saved by grace, but we are promised that we will not be able to recall the specifics. What do you think?"

Charlene, below are two paragraphs from two of your posts on the blotting out of sin. I’m reposting them because I think they are important and biblically accurate.

quote:

---

I see the sins of the people of those gone before us are not blotted out but are covered, they are not placed on the scapegoat until Satan is led into the wilderness to die. The quotes that are here on page one of the “blotting out of sins” ..is a promise that is conditional upon the lives of each saint or sinner.

There are many that believe that as God forgives the repentant sins, He blots them out, so as their life progresses and the forgivness for sins continues and are blotted out...then at the last minute they fail and are lost....hell is the punishment for the last sin committed, because all other sins have been blotted out..another of Satan's lies..it might be comforting to some that hell will only hurt for one last sin.....but how sad not to know that when one is lost, all the sins that have been covered by His blood, are uncovered and the sinner will pay the "wage" of all sins he has committed.

---

Once you’ve finished reading the other pages, please share your thoughts!

Mike, don't let me interrupt, but just let me interject a couple questions while you wait for Charlene to respond.

What do you all think was sealed in Daniel's prophecies - the truth about the Most Holy ministry of Christ, or just it's timing? Was it sealed to all of the saints, or was is sealed to the unwise? Is there a parallel today when it says that none of the wicked will understand? Daniel finally understood the vision according to his own testimony. What did he understand - all of it or only part of it?

If Rev 10 symbolizes the timing as to when the book of Daniel was unsealed and understood, then my guess is that his prophecies were not clear to God's people until sometime during and after the Millerite Movement.

Seems to me this kind of knowledge must first be understood before it can be a blessing since the work of the MHP was future before 1844. Perhaps some people understood Jesus' future ministry through other books of the Bible and may have benefited from it by claiming the work by faith. I don't know? What do you think?

Hey Mike: you know how a passage of Scripture explains another, right? You mentioned Daniel 12:10 where it says, "Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but THE WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND."

Paul says, "Therefore, DO NOT BE UNWISE, but UNDERSTAND WHAT THE WILL OF THE LORD IS. And do not be drunked with wine in which there is much dissipation, but BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT." Eph.5:17,18.

Understand what the will of the Lord is! Paul says. Understand that the will of the Lord is expressed in His words and commands and that His will is omnipotent! In the beginning it was His will that light should shine out of darkness, He said the word and it was so because His will is omnipotent! The first chapter of Genesis contains the Gospel.

The command is "Be filled with the Spirit." It is the will of God that we be filled with the Spirit! His will is omnipotent. "My word shall accomplish that which I please." Isaiah 55:11. His will is what He pleases and what He pleases is expressed in His words and commands and it pleases Him that we be filled with His Spirit! It is so if we do not interpose an evil heart of unbelief! Heb.3:7,12.

Ellen White takes this passage of Scripture, and she writes:

"Our Lord Himself has given the command, 'Be filled with the Spirit' (Eph.5:18), and this command is also a promise of its fulfillment." M.B.21. Every command is a promise because it is the will of God which is omnipotent to fulfill every jot and tittle of what is expressed in that word! Therefore, His words and commands are my delight!

Jesus said, "The Words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit and they are life." John 6:63.

Christ Himself has given the command, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and your neighbor as thyself." This command is also a promise of its fulfillment! Accepted by the will, received as the voice of God speaking to the soul in promise, that word imparts power, it begets life, even the very life of the Infinite One. And the life which is thus received is in like manner sustained, "by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." Matt.4:4.

It is possible that this is the truth that makes wise the simple? "The testimony (commandment) of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple." Ps.19:7. Is this possible that this is the message that is to be receiced, believed, and acted upon?

Jesus is in the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary pleading His divine merits in our behalf, claiming the gift of the Spirit that He may pour it upon us! He desires us to understand that it is His will that we be filled with the Spirit through His words and commands! As we hear His words and commands, faith springs up in the heart! Rom.10:17.

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: adventbeliever ]