James, please see my comments regarding this issue on the Bible Study thread entitled - "My Grace Is Sufficient For You."

While it's true that Christ sets us free from sin, and from being "under the law", the Bible still speaks in terms of faithful believers keeping the commandments, and the law, in many places. If it's good enough for the Bible writers to speak in such terms, it should certainly be good enough for us.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." -- 1 John 5:3.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." -- Revelation 14:12.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." -- Revelation 22:14.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." -- Romans 3:31.

Even in Old Testament times, believers were saved by grace through faith; though they were expected to keep the Law (same as we are).

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." -- Galatians 3:7.

"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed." -- Hebrews 11:8.

"Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." -- Genesis 26:5.

James is crystal clear on the obligation of New Testament believers to keep the Ten Commandments, and uses that phraseology:

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For He that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." -- James 2:10-12.

God's government is based upon His law, which in turn is based upon His character. Of course we must obey the law; to do otherwise is to sin. "Sin is the transgression of the law." -- 1 John 3:4.

And of course obeying God's law is impossible in our own strength:

"Without Me ye can do nothing." -- John 15:5.
"Without faith it is impossible to please Him." -- Hebrews 11:6.

John.
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." -- 1 John 5:3.
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." -- Revelation 14:12.
"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." -- Revelation 22:14.
Unquote.

When you have the “love of God” in your heart as fruit of the Spirit, your “deeds” are in harmony with the law, although it is not ‘you” who keep and obey the law but Christ that imparts His ‘love” in your heart through the work of the Spirit, and this “love” fulfils the righteous demands of the law.

Justified by faith, judge by works. Faith without works is dead, but this works are “the willing and the doing of God.”

Quote.
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." -- Romans 3:31.
Unquote.

Faith doesn’t nullify the law, because faith has nothing to do with keeping the law as “the law is not of faith.” Faith deals with Christ, focusing on Him, trusting in Him, surrender your will to Him and He will do the rest. He has saved us and He is the One that maintains our safety, if we allow Him.

But the law will exist forever as a symbol of men inability to keep and obey it as it is too holy, right and just for sinful men. It is God’s standard of His heavenly Kingdom where no one could cope, so that, righteousness might be given freely through faith in Christ apart from the law.

James 2:10-12 is not telling us to keep and obey the law as a standard for living that makes you become under the law, but he just gives a comparison for those who said they have love but shows favoritism, they break the law.

James 2:8-13.
8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[1] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery,"[2] also said, "Do not murder."[3] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

Unquote.

Clearly James was saying that we must keep the royal law “love your neighbor as yourself.” And he understood that this kind of love is the fruit of faith, fruit of the Spirit, because he said that faith without works (absence of works), is a dead faith.

Speak and act as those who are going to be judge by the law that gives freedom, and that is not the 10 Commandments, because keeping it make you become a slave of SIN, SIN is your master. But “the love of God”, which is the principle of His holy law will sets you free from the SIN of self-love, now you may love your fellow man.

Quote.
God's government is based upon His law, which in turn is based upon His character. Of course we must obey the law; to do otherwise is to sin. "Sin is the transgression of the law." -- 1 John 3:4.
Unquote.

You may do your best in keeping and obeying the law, the result is only “deeds of the flesh”, the law reveals your SIN, judge you and condemn you. Breaking the law is sin, keeping the law is SIN.

In His love

James S.

James wrote:

"You may do your best in keeping and obeying the law, the result is only “deeds of the flesh”, the law reveals your SIN, judge you and condemn you. Breaking the law is sin, keeping the law is SIN."

The way you worded this paragraph is misleading - "Keeping the law is SIN." In order to avoid misunderstanding you may want to consider saying it this way - "Keeping the law apart from a saving relationship with Jesus is a sin."

What do you think?

What about Paul's statements quoted at the beginning of this thread? What is he talking about?

1) Are we to assume that he was referring to unconquered known defects of character when he wrote - I haven't attained or apprehended perfection yet?

2) And that between writing the Philippians and Timothy he had finally reached the mark?

3) Or does he mean something entirely different?

COL 384.2 - "Love is the basis of godliness. Whatever the profession, no man has pure love to God unless he has unselfish love for his brother. But we can never come into possession of this spirit by trying to love others. What is needed is the love of Christ in the heart. When self is merged in Christ, love springs forth spontaneously. The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from within--when the sunshine of heaven fills the heart and is revealed in the countenance."

Is the "completeness of Christian character" available now? Or must we wait until after years of sinning and repenting?

Mike.

The way you worded this paragraph is misleading - "Keeping the law is SIN." In order to avoid misunderstanding you may want to consider saying it this way - "Keeping the law apart from a saving relationship with Jesus is a sin."
What do you think?
Unquote.

It is not my intention to mislead the forum readers, so allow me to clarify.

Breaking the law is sin (1 John 3:4), it is your own deeds that is against the law of God.

Keeping the law is SIN, when you keep the law the bible said; you are under the law! And whoever is under the law, SIN is his master (Romans 6:14). The opposite is “If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law” (Galatians 5:18).

Conclusion: keeping the law is SIN, it is deeds of the flesh, it is against a life led by the Spirit, it is a life without faith. But no wonder, because “the law is not of faith”. And our obedience to the law only exposed this SIN in us (Romans 3:20; 7:7).

Keeping the law is an expression of our desire that is under dominion of SIN, our self-love nature that is against God’s character “love that seeks no self”.

“Live by the Spirit and you will not follow the lust of the flesh” – Galatians 5:16.

“If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law” – Galatians 5:18.

“But SIN will not be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace” – Romans 6:14

Very clear, that living by the Spirit will sets us free from SIN of self love and the power of SIN that is the law. Keeping the law empowered SIN to work in us and makes us a slave of SIN, deeds of the flesh is the fruits.

Keeping the law is SIN, the law is not of faith and whatever is not of faith is SIN.

Whatever that is not fruit of the Spirit, comes from self that is under dominion of SIN (self-love). And to have fruit of the Spirit we must live by faith and that is not include an obligation for keeping the law.

In short, it is God that made our life in harmony with the law (Romans 8:4; Ezekiel 36:26,27; Galatians 5:22,23), we don’t need to keep the law and have no obligation whatsoever to the law.

Am I clarify my self, is my idea according to your phrase “Keeping the law apart from a saving relationship with Jesus is a sin"? What do you think?

In His love

James S.

"... we don’t need to keep the law and have no obligation whatsoever to the law."

This phrase is misleading. I believe it is better to say, "Legitimate law keeping is possible only in Jesus Christ."

Mike.

"... we don’t need to keep the law and have no obligation whatsoever to the law."
This phrase is misleading. I believe it is better to say, "Legitimate law keeping is possible only in Jesus Christ."
Unquote.

You phrase it well and correct.

But mine is not misleading if I add to that:” What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! (Romans 6:1,2). ‘You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love” (Galatians 5:13). “So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature” (Galatians 5:16).

The point is that a believer in Christ who is lead by the Spirit has a life or deeds in harmony with the law as fruits of the Spirit. In harmony with the law doesn’t mean that he keeps the law, but the Spirit that lives in him made him has a change of character, the love of God now ruled his heart and “love” is the fulfillment of the law.

What I want to stress is that a believer is not under the law, which means under the jurisdiction of the law to obey – to be judge and condemned for his guilt.

Am I right?

In His love

James S.

To say we are not under the jurisdiction of the law is also misleading. The law embraces the entire Universe. There's nowhere anybody can go to escape the law.

We can escape the condemnation of the law by being in Christ, but being in Christ does not mean that we are no longer obligated to keep the law. Keeping the law in Christ is the fruit of salvation.

Mike.

Faith is a private relationship with God, only between me and God.

I don’t need the law because I believe that if I live by the Spirit, God will make me have a character that is in harmony with the law by a change of heart. By living after the Spirit I will have the righteous demands of the law fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4), because love, which is fruit of the Spirit is now my nature, and this love is the fulfillment of the law.

But if I want to live by the law (keeping it), the bible said that SIN is my master, I am under dominion of SIN, that’s why no one would be justified by the law as the only thing the law can do is judging me and condemned me because of my SIN that was exposed through my obedience.

What Sin is it? Love for self! Sin of unbelief!

“The law is not of faith” and “whatever that is not of faith is SIN.”

Living by the law makes you under the law, under the obligation to keep and live by what the law requires. But the righteousness did not come from keeping the law, on the contrary it is a righteousness that was imparted by the Spirit. It is Christ imparted righteousness. And Christ imparted righteousness is fruit of the Spirit, a life by the Spirit. It doesn’t come from a life by the law.

Do you need the law when you live by the Spirit?

Have you enough faith in Christ to believe that he is the one leading you and made you have His righteousness without the law?

In His love

James S.