I am reposting this post:

PS - I'll be away on assignment until next week. Tom, I hope you get a chance to address the points I raised on page 4 and 5 of this thread. Thank you.

I looked at the previous page, and did come across one post I had not addressed, but only one. I’m addressing it here. If there are other points you wish to have addressed, either because I missed them and didn’t comment, or because my comment did not adequately address your point, please repost them (or, if I missed a long post, you can try to redirect me to it). Thanks.

1. That beings from “other worlds” chose not to rebel with Satan is evident from the fact they were not banished to earth with him.

I don’t know why you’re mentioning this. This was never in question.


2. That Satan tried to persuade them to rebel with him is evident from the quotes I posted in my last post. Their decision was final. No further temptations would have led them astray.

Nor this. Their decision wasn’t final. They could have changed their mind. The cross settled thing in the minds of all the unfallen beings.

3. That they were tested with a forbidden tree is evident from the same list of quotes. However, the quotes do not indicate whether or not Satan tried to deceive them at the forbidden tree.

Of course he did. He wants as many on his side as possible. The fact that he was allowed access at the tree implies, of course!, that he tempted them there.

4. Although they felt Satan was worthy of death, it is clear they did not understand the relationship between sinning and dying. They needed more evidence.

Evidence of what?

5. Had man successfully resisted Satan at the forbidden tree, he would have been made eternally secure. Satan would have had no one else to tempt. Watching the evil angels squabble among themselves would have served no purpose. The great controversy would have ended.

The questions Satan had raised would still have had to be dealt with. It wasn’t until the cross that the unfallen beings were secured. You should be aware of this, as the quotes have been presented in past conversations. If not, I can reproduce the quotes. The opening paragraphs of „It is Finished“ is one place that speaks of this.

6. "I'm also not sure where you are getting the idea that the beings from other worlds chose not to eat of the forbidden tree long before Lucifer was created." I never said such a thing.

I meant to write "long before Lucifer fell"

Sin (as an idea, as a concept) will exist throughout eternity. Sinning, however, will not happen again.

Sin will cease to exist. This is the clear teaching of inspiration, and, indeed, is what the Great Controversy is all about; to bring an end to sin. Here is one text which states this truth (that sin will cease to exist).



A sometimes frustrating circumstance in dialogging with you is your reluctance to admit to being in error. (Instead, you may make claims that the words, as you use them, do not mean the same thing as words mean when used by others.)

The statement "sin and sinners are no more" means that sin no longer exists.

Seeing that the writings of EGW are a lesser light leading to the greater light, can this EGW quote be backed by a Bible reference?

She's explaining the sanctuary service, so Bible texts which deal with the sanctuary service could be cited.

Is there a Bible text about the blood being transferred as stated in that EGW quote, again quoted below?

If so, then give me a Bible answer.

Look at Hebrews.

What Ellen White wrote, that you quoted, would have been obvious to anyone familiar with the Hebrew customs. She was simply saying that the heavenly sanctuary was the anti-type to the type, which was the earthly sanctuary, which the Hebrews already knew. There was no need for Scripture to state what she wrote, since that was already obvious to them.

So are you saying there isn't any actual specific Bible text to back up that the blood is transferred, "in figure, to the earthly sanctuary"?

That's what the Bible text means, Daryl! It's like, for example, the Bible says, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." and Ellen White writes, "Man was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God." and you ask, "Is there any text in the Bible that says this" and one answers, "Yes, there's John 3:16". One could say, "but it doesn't specifically say that," however, that's the meaning of the text.

Similarly, regarding the sanctuary service, Ellen White is simply explaining the meaning of the text. People who are familiar with the Hebrew culture (which, of course, any of those who were alive when the Scripture texts about the sanctuary were written would be) would understand the meaning of the text. But now we live in a different time and culture, and are far removed from the Hebrew culture and time in which the sanctuary service was as natural a metaphor as cars or televisions would be for us today. So God sends a prophet to explain what the texts mean, a lesser light to point to the greater light. But the meaning of the texts was always there in the text.

You can't expect that a book written thousands of years ago would use the same language and means to explain things as 19th century English. So if your question is, "Is there some Bible text that uses the same sentence construction and words as a 19th century author writing in a Western language did" then the answer is "No, of course not." But if you're wondering where to find the same meaning of what Ellen White wrote, the answer is, look at the texts which speak of that which Ellen White is describing, because what she is explaining is implicit in those texts (and actually explicit for those to whom these things were written).

Are you asking about the blood, or sin? If you want texts showing blood sprinkled everywhere, they're in Leviticus.

But the EGW quote is talking about sin being transferred.