I saw the Father rise from the throne, and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who arose when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm, and we heard His lovely voice saying, "Wait here; I am going to My Father to receive the kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to Myself." Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. On the hem of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest, and pray, "My Father, give us Thy Spirit." Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace. (EW 55)

"We have not time or space here to enter into details, but it must suffice to say that a comparison of Daniel 9:24-26 with Ezra 7 shows that the days mentioned in the prophecy began 457 B. C., and so reach to 1844 A. D. . . . But some one will ask: What connection has 1844 with the blood of Christ, and that blood is no more efficient at one time than another, how can it be said that at a certain time the sanctuary shall be cleansed? Has not the blood of Christ continually been cleansing the living sanctuary, the church? The reply is, that there is such a thing as 'the time of the end.' Sin must have an end, and work of cleansing will one day be complete. . . . Now it is a fact that since the middle of the last century new light has shone forth, and truth of the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus is revealed as never before, and the loud cry of the message, 'Behold your God!' is being proclaimed" (E.G. Waggoner, British Present Truth, May 23, 1901).

Though all the record of all our sin, even though written with the finger of God, were erased, the sin would remain, because the sin is in us. Though the record of our sin were graven in the rock, and the rock should be ground to powder even this would not blot out our sin.

The blotting out of sin is the erasing of it from nature, the being of man [from other statements made in 1901 it is plain he does not mean the eradication of the sinful nature]. The erasing of sin is the blotting of it from our natures, so that we shall know it no more. 'The worshippers once purged' [Hebrews 10:2, 3]actually purged by the blood of Christ have 'no more conscience of sins,' because the way of sin is gone from them. Their iniquity may be sought for, but it will not be found. It is forever gone from them it is foreign to their new natures, and even though they may be able to recall the fact that they have committed certain sins, they have forgotten the sin itself they do not think of doing it any more. This is the work of Christ in the true sanctuary" (The Review and Herald, September 30, 1902; editorial comment added).

Clearly it is not the sacrifice that defiles.

This [Num 18:1] is speaking of Aaron’s responsibility as high priest, to keep defilement from the sanctuary.

We have emphasized a “two-phase” ministry. But there is no two-phase ministry.

Tall:I am saying that the text says that the sanctuary is heaven itself.

Tom:Ok, but that still leaves the question why there are two compartments.

Tall:There were several points where the fulfllment went far beyond the type.

The two apartments emphasized the separation from God because the high priest alone, once per year, could go directly into God's presence. God met with the people through the sanctuary (let them build Me a sanctuary that I may dwell amont them). But it was a limited access.

In contrast Jesus went directly into heaven, in God's presence, and fulfilled the ministry one time--not like that of the Priests. In fact, Hebrews makes a big point of the fact that the earthly priest had to continually, year after year, offer the same sacrifices, which could never take away sin.

Was that the same in the fulfillment? No. It is a beautiful contrast where the type is overshadowed by the true.

Remember, the fulfillment is the true, not the type.

Jesus had FULL access, ever since ascension.

Tom:I suppose this is a possible way of looking at things, but I think it makes more sense to view the two compartments as corresponding to different ministries. This has been a very common interpretation among SDA's for a long time. In particular, Jones and Waggoner preached on this theme during the 1888 era in great detail.

During the typical Day of Atonement, there was a special work among the people to put away sin. I believe this special work corresponds to the work God's people are to do now. For example, during the daily ministration, the people could wear jewelry, they could drink. On the Day of Atonement, these things were put away. This was so the mind could be clear to follow what the High Priest was doing. Now we are to follow what the antitypical High Priest is doing, which is a special work of cleansing, not of a building, but of a people.

Tom (previous):To me it makes sense to think of things in terms of phases of ministry, as opposed to physical locations.

Tall:If there is no transfer of sin there is no phase of ministry.

Tom:I'm not seeing this. It would depend on what the phases of ministry are supposed to accomplish. I believe the first phase (which is still continuing, the daily) represents the work of Christ in regards to our having a saving relationship with Him, a preparation for death. The second represents a special end time work which is necessary in order for us to be ready for His Coming. The sin that is "transferred" is in us. The blotting out of sin represents the blotting out of sin from our character.



This is again from Waggoner.

Tall:The many earthly sacrifices were just constant reminders of the ONE Sacrifice of Christ. The blood did not first transfer then cleanse. If the animal represented Christ how could it transfer? Did Jesus' Sacrifice ever pollute? It always cleansed. The animal DIED for the sins of the offerer. If it died, why would the sin merely be transferred?

The text itself in Lev. says it atoned.

Tom:You would agree that the sacrificial service is a metaphor, I take it, from reading your comments. The question is, what is it meant to teach us? I think the questions you are asking are problems if one tries to take things literally, but not if one looks at the bigger question as to what the metaphor is meant to teach. I believe the transfer of sin represents the removal of sin from us. The blood cleanses us from sin as we appreciate the truths that blood represents.

Tall73,

Your posts are very long, so I still wasn't able to read and answer everything you wrote. However, I've tried to answer to the main points of your first post.

As you noticed in the bible texts you posted, intentional, deliberate sin, from which there is no repentance, also defiles the sanctuary; and this kind of sin makes the sinner to be cut off from his people.




I agree, and this is precisely what I said. This is how I see it: what defiles is sin, not the blood of the sin offering. However, the blood provided the means through which sin was taken away from the sinner. In the day of judgment, when the sanctuary was cleansed, the sinner did not have to die, for the sacrifice had died in his place – the blood in the sanctuary attested this. In the case of the unrepentant sinner, however, there was no blood in the sanctuary, which meant that the sin was still upon the sinner; therefore, in the day of judgment the unrepentant sinner was cut off from his people.

I disagree. In every sacrifice there was the clear idea of transference of guilt and substitution; the victim took the place of the human sinner.

The blood of the sin offering was then applied in one of two ways: a. If it was taken into the holy place, it was sprinkled before the inner veil and placed on the horns of the altar of incense (Lev. 4:6,7,17,18). b. If it was not taken into the sanctuary, it was placed on the horns of the altar of burnt offering in the court (Lev. 4:25,30). In that case the priest ate part of the flesh of the sacrifice (Lev. 6:25,26,30).

In either case, the participants understood that their sins and accountability were transferred to the sanctuary and its priesthood.

In the same way, Christ assumes the sinner’s sins and accountability. Christ is the believer’s Surety as well as his Substitute.

I don’t believe Christ was my Substitute only on the cross. I believe He is still my Substitute today. And this is what the transference of sin symbolized.

I disagree. The daily ministry had to do only with mediation. The ceremony of the day of atonement, however, had to do with judgment - the Bible shows this, and the Jewish people has consistently believed in this throughout their history.

It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth. {COL 415.3}

This is the work outlined by the prophet Isaiah in the words, "O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him." Isa. 40:9,10. {COL 415.4}

Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love. The children of God are to manifest His glory. In their own life and character they are to reveal what the grace of God has done for them. {COL 415.5}

I disagree.

I have no problem with the transfer TO the animal, which represents the transfer to Christ who became sin for us, according to Paul.

They saw it transferred to the animal and the animal died for their sin.

B. How can the sin that is transferred be in us?

It is transferred from in us to out of us, in the sense that Waggoner explained (that is, rooted out from our character). It's not physically transferred, because sin isn't a physical thing. It is transferred out of our minds as our minds are cleansed.

Atonement was made by the blood--not transfer. The animal died, and if it did not die for their sins, what did it die for? Just to transfer?

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God. (1 Pet. 3:18)

(M)an was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God. {DA 761.5}

The whole world needs to be instructed in the oracles of God, to understand the object of the atonement, the at-one-ment, with God. {ST, March 20, 1901 par. 5}