I don't think God ever excuses any sin in the sense that He says "No problem" and forgets it. Rather, the one who sins ignorantly is covered by Christ's blood, as typified by the morning and evening sacrifices. When the sin is revealed, then he must offer the appropriate sacrifices prescribed in Leviticus, which address mostly ignorant sins. Known sin, OTOH, was usually addressed by stoning.

Yes, there is something different.


Indeed, I am the chief of sinners. I doubt anyone is more irritating to you than my ownself. Ha! Actually, things have improved wonderfully over the years.

At any rate, didn't God require a "continual burnt offering" morning and evening, a kind of catch all sacrifice to atone for sins of ignorance? I mean, there were sacrifices prescribed for every kind of sin, right? But the continual burnt offering was in addition to them. That's why it makes sense to conclude it atoned for sins of ignorance (before they realized they were sinning).

Since God requires atonement for sins of ignorance, before and after they realize they are sinning, how can we say sins of ignorance (before they realize they are sinning) are excusable? Since it requires atonement, how can it be excusable?

By the way, your example of me "sinning" applies to human relationships, that is, you can excuse my sin. But God cannot excuse sins of ignorance. True, He doesn't treat them the same way as intentional sinning, but, nevertheless, it still requires atonement.


Yes, shes is speaking of two different things. However, I think there is a common principle - God cannot excuse sin. He can pardon it, He can wink at it, but He cannot excuse it.

Also, I agree with you that the cross influences us morally to love God and to obey His commandments. However, there is more to it. Someone must die for the sins we commit, must pay our sin debt, must suffer our punishment.

AG 139
Justice demands that sin be not merely pardoned, but the death penalty must be executed. God, in the gift of His only-begotten Son, met both these requirements. By dying in man's stead, Christ exhausted the penalty and provided a pardon. {AG 139.2}

1BC 1086
In the plan of redemption there must be the shedding of blood, for death must come in consequence of man's sin. The beasts for sacrificial offerings were to prefigure Christ. In the slain victim, man was to see the fulfillment for the time being of God's word, "Ye shall surely die" {1BC 1086.7}

Indeed, I am the chief of sinners. I doubt anyone is more irritating to you than my ownself. Ha! Actually, things have improved wonderfully over the years.

That's true. I look forward to your posts now. I didn't used to have that emotion.

At any rate, didn't God require a "continual burnt offering" morning and evening, a kind of catch all sacrifice to atone for sins of ignorance? I mean, there were sacrifices prescribed for every kind of sin, right? But the continual burnt offering was in addition to them. That's why it makes sense to conclude it atoned for sins of ignorance (before they realized they were sinning).

If we look at things in terms of a broken relationship, which end of the relationship is broken? Ours, clearly. We see from Jesus Christ how God is. Consider the parable of the prodigal son. While the son was a "long way off" the father was looking for him. He would allow the son to even get off his rehearsed speech. That he came back was enough.

That's the way God is. Actually God is even better than that. EGW tells us in SC that this parable, as wonderful as it is, still falls short in describing God's love and character. It's even better than the parable is!

So God does whatever is necessary *for us* to be healed, or set right. He does what is necessary, regardless of the cost to Himself, in order to fix our relationship with Him.

The continual sacrifices were a testament to that. It was a way of letting us know that we don't even need to worry about the sins we commit in ignorance.

Since God requires atonement for sins of ignorance, before and after they realize they are sinning, how can we say sins of ignorance (before they realize they are sinning) are excusable? Since it requires atonement, how can it be excusable?

*We* are the ones that require atonement. The atonement is for our benefit, not God's. He is already right with us. We need to get right with Him. The message in Scripture is "be ye reconciled to God."

Whatever God requires is for our own benefit. That is, He specifies for us what is needed in order for our relationship with Him to be fixed. Not as an arbitrary requirement He has in order to be satisfied, but because He knows what we need in order to be fixed from the damage sin brings.

By the way, your example of me "sinning" applies to human relationships, that is, you can excuse my sin. But God cannot excuse sins of ignorance.

Sure He can. He can do whatever He wants. He is the one that has been sinned against. He can pardon any sins He pleases. His attitude is made plain by Christ, who prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Didn't God answer that prayer? In so doing, God excused their sins of ignorance.

True, He doesn't treat them the same way as intentional sinning, but, nevertheless, it still requires atonement.

We need the peace of mind that comes from knowing that we cannot, by ignorance, sin God away, so to speak.

asg: Known sin, OTOH, was usually addressed by stoning.

MM: True. The Levitical Law did not tolerate willful sinning. It prescribed ether death or excommunication. Fortunately, though, God is not bound by law. Mercy trumps justice when God so desires.

Numbers
15:30 But the soul that doeth [ought] presumptuously, [whether he be] born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity [shall be] upon him.

Hebrews
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Right on!


Yes, God is a doting, loving, compassionate Father, not willing that any should perish, doing whatever it takes to save everyone. No doubt about it. But He cannot turn a deaf ear or a blind eye to sin. Sinning is a terrible thing, whether committed willfully or in ignorance. God sent Jesus to save us from sinning by revealing to us, through His life and death, 1) the character of God and 2) the hideousness of sin, self, and Satan. Both revelations are required to save us.

"It was a way of letting us know that we don't even need to worry about the sins we commit in ignorance." I wouldn't take it that far, Tom. It implies it doesn't matter. But it does. That's why we are counseled to pray - "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." (Psalm 139:23, 24)


If it is us, and not God, who requires blood sacrifice for sins of ignorance (before and after we realize we are sinning), why did God command it in the law?

Besides, saying it is we who demand it, makes it sound optional, like God wouldn't expect it if we didn't demand it, that it would be all right with Him if we wanted to drop it out of the law.

Where in the Bible does it depict Moses telling God, "Oh, by the way, we want to institute blood sacrifices for sins of ignorance, hope you're okay with that."


Jesus was able to ask God to forgive them because He was spilling His blood for them. It is the perfect life and death of Jesus that gives God the right to forgive sinners.


True. It is the perfect life and death of Jesus that gives us such assurance, blessed assurance.

PS - Are you going to address the first and last parts of my previous post? You left it out in this post.

In context, what I wrote was clear. I was talking about God's feelings/emotions/attitude towards us, and our relationship with Him. We do not need to worry that whatever wrong things we are doing will alter God's attitude towards us, or damage our relationship. God will take care of things. As long as we are willing to do His will, at the right time God will reveal light, as we need it.



Why wouldn't He? Where else would He have put it?



Sin has damaged us, and we need to be healed. God knows exactly what we need in order to be healed. God's requirements are tailored to our need. But God doesn't need anything. He's already fine.



God is the one who knew what we needed, not Moses. Moses recorded what God told him to write down.

Tom, is there a reason why you aren't addressing some of the points I raised in my last tow posts? In my last post I wrote, "PS - Are you going to address the first and last parts of my previous post? You left it out in this post." Now, again, in your last post you left out parts.

MM, sorry for whatever I left out. Please either repost the parts I didn't respond to, or give me the post #. Thanks.

Tom, you overlooked the first and last part of this post.

First Part:

Yes, there is something different. Is there more you'd like to say on it? End of First Part


Indeed, I am the chief of sinners. I doubt anyone is more irritating to you than my ownself. Ha! Actually, things have improved wonderfully over the years.

At any rate, didn't God require a "continual burnt offering" morning and evening, a kind of catch all sacrifice to atone for sins of ignorance? I mean, there were sacrifices prescribed for every kind of sin, right? But the continual burnt offering was in addition to them. That's why it makes sense to conclude it atoned for sins of ignorance (before they realized they were sinning).

Since God requires atonement for sins of ignorance, before and after they realize they are sinning, how can we say sins of ignorance (before they realize they are sinning) are excusable? Since it requires atonement, how can it be excusable?

By the way, your example of me "sinning" applies to human relationships, that is, you can excuse my sin. But God cannot excuse sins of ignorance. True, He doesn't treat them the same way as intentional sinning, but, nevertheless, it still requires atonement.

Last Part:

Yes, shes is speaking of two different things. However, I think there is a common principle - God cannot excuse sin. He can pardon it, He can wink at it, but He cannot excuse it.

Also, I agree with you that the cross influences us morally to love God and to obey His commandments. However, there is more to it. Someone must die for the sins we commit, must pay our sin debt, must suffer our punishment.

AG 139
Justice demands that sin be not merely pardoned, but the death penalty must be executed. God, in the gift of His only-begotten Son, met both these requirements. By dying in man's stead, Christ exhausted the penalty and provided a pardon. {AG 139.2}

1BC 1086
In the plan of redemption there must be the shedding of blood, for death must come in consequence of man's sin. The beasts for sacrificial offerings were to prefigure Christ. In the slain victim, man was to see the fulfillment for the time being of God's word, "Ye shall surely die" {1BC 1086.7} End of Last Part

You also overlooked the parts indicated in red in this posts:


Right on!


This paragraph: Yes, God is a doting, loving, compassionate Father, not willing that any should perish, doing whatever it takes to save everyone. No doubt about it. But He cannot turn a deaf ear or a blind eye to sin. Sinning is a terrible thing, whether committed willfully or in ignorance. God sent Jesus to save us from sinning by revealing to us, through His life and death, 1) the character of God and 2) the hideousness of sin, self, and Satan. Both revelations are required to save us.

"It was a way of letting us know that we don't even need to worry about the sins we commit in ignorance." I wouldn't take it that far, Tom. It implies it doesn't matter. But it does. That's why we are counseled to pray - "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." (Psalm 139:23, 24)


If it is us, and not God, who requires blood sacrifice for sins of ignorance (before and after we realize we are sinning), why did God command it in the law?

Besides, saying it is we who demand it, makes it sound optional, like God wouldn't expect it if we didn't demand it, that it would be all right with Him if we wanted to drop it out of the law.

Where in the Bible does it depict Moses telling God, "Oh, by the way, we want to institute blood sacrifices for sins of ignorance, hope you're okay with that."

From here to the end of the post:

Jesus was able to ask God to forgive them because He was spilling His blood for them. It is the perfect life and death of Jesus that gives God the right to forgive sinners.


True. It is the perfect life and death of Jesus that gives us such assurance, blessed assurance.

PS - Are you going to address the first and last parts of my previous post? You left it out in this post.