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Re: Does God have options? [Re: Mountain Man] #92921
11/19/07 04:01 PM
11/19/07 04:01 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Back to God's so-called options. Such options are theoretical. Because God is perfect, He will only do that which is right and best. He will not settle for anything less than right and best. Because God is omniscient, He does not do things one way only to learn later on it wasn't the right and best choice.

Re: Does God have options? [Re: Mountain Man] #92922
11/19/07 04:46 PM
11/19/07 04:46 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Back to God's so-called options. Such options are theoretical. Because God is perfect, He will only do that which is right and best. He will not settle for anything less than right and best. Because God is omniscient, He does not do things one way only to learn later on it wasn't the right and best choice.
Well, if that is the truth, then the other option is that the bible is not a reliable source of information concerning God. (And if it is not reliable concerning God, what would it be reliable about?)

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

It repenteth me that I have set up Saul [to be] king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.
...
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
...
If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

Thus saith the LORD; Stand in the court of the LORD'S house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD'S house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word: If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.
...
Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.
...
Micah the Morasthite prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spake to all the people of Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Zion shall be plowed [like] a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of a forest. Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the LORD, and besought the LORD, and the LORD repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.

If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull [you] down, and I will plant you, and not pluck [you] up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.

And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he [is] gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Does God have options? [Re: vastergotland] #92923
11/19/07 04:54 PM
11/19/07 04:54 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
The LORD repented for this: It shall not be, saith the LORD.
...
The LORD repented for this: This also shall not be, saith the Lord GOD.

The Lord claims to repent and the Lord is known by the prophets to repent. If the truth is that the Lord does not repent, then the prophets where wrong about God and the authors of the bible have then repeatedly missquoted God (or quoted God correctly but God was not honest with what He told them) and in such case, how can we know if any particular passage of scripture is honest and relating to reality?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Does God have options? [Re: Mountain Man] #92929
11/19/07 07:40 PM
11/19/07 07:40 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
TV: "According to Jesus' words, quoted above, there are two general directions ..."

MM: We agree there are two gates and two ways. Jesus named them 1) the strait gate, and 2) the wide gate. Life begins after we enter the gate. The way beyond the wide gate is broad and full of death, whereas the way beyond the strait gate is narrow and full of life.

Matthew
7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Re: Does God have options? [Re: Mountain Man] #92930
11/19/07 07:45 PM
11/19/07 07:45 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thomas, should I assume you think the texts you posted above teach there are many "right and best" options to available to God? And, do you think they mean God feels He made the wrong choice?

Re: Does God have options? [Re: Mountain Man] #92931
11/19/07 10:06 PM
11/19/07 10:06 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Either the bible is correct when it quotes God with repenting, or then the bible is not correct when it quotes God with repenting.

Either God repented or then God did not repent, but if He did not repent, then the bible is found lying when it claims He did.

I believe that in some of the situations reflected in the above quotes, God made the best choise aviable but humans screwed with Gods plans which therefore failed, whereupon God repented of His previous actions.
In other cases, it is punishment which God has meted out on His people that He repents, which stands as evidence to His mercy and love.

For your second question, I wonder, is there a difference between saying
#1, I wish I had not done X,
#2, I repent of doing X.

For instance, God made Saul king of the tribes, Saul profoundly messes up and God ends up reconsidering choosing Saul as king and repenting/wishing he had not done so.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Does God have options? [Re: vastergotland] #92944
11/20/07 02:43 PM
11/20/07 02:43 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thanx, Thomas, for answering my questions. I think I now understand what you believe. I guess I prefer to believe God was using words and ideas we can relate to, rather than concluding it means God sometimes makes decisions He later regrets because they turn out wrong. The part that bothers me the most is the idea that God can make decisions that end up wrong, or that He does something that He later wishes He hadn't done.

I would find it hard to trust God with the future. Whatever He says about the future would have to be taken with a grain of salt because there is a chance it won't turn out the way He hopes. I wouldn't be 100% certain that "affliction shall not rise up the second time" simply because God says so. He might be wrong. Thus, I prefer to believe God knows the "end from the beginning", that the reason He can accurately foretell the future is because He is omnipresent and omniscient, that our yesterdays and tomorrows are, for God, now and always.

Re: Does God have options? [Re: Mountain Man] #92945
11/20/07 02:45 PM
11/20/07 02:45 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
PS - Thomas, have you decided not to address post #92929 (4 posts up)?

Re: Does God have options? [Re: Mountain Man] #92957
11/20/07 09:27 PM
11/20/07 09:27 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Is there something in that post that beggs to be adressed?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Does God have options? [Re: vastergotland] #92963
11/21/07 02:56 AM
11/21/07 02:56 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
I guess I prefer to believe God was using words and ideas we can relate to


Of course God uses words we can relate to. What else would He do? Use words we can't understand?

If God tells us that He changes His mind, or is sorry for a decision He made, what is it exactly that we are supposed to relate this to, if not being sorry for decisions we have made, or changing our minds? What do you think God wants us to understand?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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