This isn't my argument. My argument is that reality is as God perceives it to be. If God perceives reality to be such that there is only one possible way the future can happen (which the different things you have been suggesting imply) then there is only one way the future can happen. If there is only one way the future can happen, then we don't have options, and don't have libertarian free will.

That's the argument.

I would recomend those of you who are interested in getting this together to read "The God who risks" by John Sanders, published by IVP Academic.

Tom, you can't even explain how God can be everywhere at the same time. Until you can, you have no right to reject anything else about God. Reality is not what God "perceives" it to be. Reality is what is. It has nothing to do with the "future" as we know it.

What are you talking about? This makes no sense. First of all, the issue has to do with the future. Secondly, I'm not rejecting anything about God. What are you talking about "reject anything else about God"?!?



You said earlier that you agreed that reality is what God perceives it to be. This should be really obvious. I don't know why you would deny this now.

If reality is not what God perceives it to be, in what way is it different?

Tom, please explain to me how God can physically be everywhere at the same time.

Also, reality has nothing to do with perception. I've made that clear. Reality is the truth as God knows it.

If reality is the truth at God knows it to be, and God knows the future to be just one thing, then the future is just one thing.

As Luther put it, what God knows will happen must of necessity happen. Man does not have free will.

This is simple to understand. If there is one thing that must of necessity happen, then that one thing must happen, and not some other thing. Free will depends upon the possibility of more than one thing happening.

For your position to be true, it must be possible to do something different from what God knows will happen.


Regarding God being present everywhere at the same time, first of all, this has nothing to do with anything. Secondly, what do you want me to explain? It seems like a silly question. It's like asking, how can God know everything? How can God be all powerful? How can God be so good? How can God be so smart? How was God able to create the universe?

How would you have any of these questions answered?

The reason God knows what will happen in the future is due to the fact He is watching it happen right now. This has no more impact upon free will than God watching things happen yesterday or today.

Tom, your unrelated questions do nothing to answer my question. That God is everywhere at the same time is just as difficult to explain as the fact He inhabits eternity. His ability to be everywhere at the same time is key to understanding His abiity to inhabit eternity - both have to do with God's relationship to time and space as we know it.

If God is watching he future happen right now, then there is only one possible future that can happen, the one which God is watching. If there is only one thing that can happen, then we cannot do something other than that, since there is only one thing that can happen.

I'm not following if you don't understand this, or what you're thinking is. This is very simple logic. It's the same logic Luther laid out. "What God knows will happen must necessarily happen." (Luther)

I'm also not following if you understand that the issue is ontological, and not epistemological. I'm guessing you don't understand this, because you wrote:



I don't know if I can explain things in a way that you can understand the issue. Given the time we've spent on this, perhaps not.

You're simply not talking about the same thing I am. You're not dealing with the issue of what the future is like.

Or like the question, "explain God and give two examples".

The problem isn't that free will is compromised if God knows which option, out of the all the options available, we are going to choose; instead, the question is - How can God be everywhere at the same time?

Being everywhere at the same time involves questions concerning time and space. What is about God that enables Him to be everywhere in time and space? What it is about FMAs that we cannot be everywhere in time and space?

If we can understand, or least accept, the fact God is everywhere at the same time, we might be able to explain why He knows which option, out of all the options available to us, we are gong to choose.

One thing is certain, though, just because God knows which option, out of all the options available to us, we are going to choose - it does not mean we are robbed of our ability or freedom to choose.