The following verse seems to indicate that there were people who were resurrected after the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

quote:

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Matthew 27:52 the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

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It says "many bodies of the saints." How many, many is, is not stated, however, 144,000 would be quite a number of resurrected saints to be appearing to many. What would have been the population of Jerusalem back then?

When Christ ascended into heaven, did they ascend into heaven with Him?

If the 144,000 in the book of Revelation symbolizes the saints who were resurrected when Jesus came forth from the grave then why are they described as a future group of believers that refuse to receive the mark of the beast (MOB)?

Revelation
7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.

Those resurrected with Christ did go to heaven with Him at His ascension --

"All heaven was waiting the hour of triumph when Jesus should ascend to His Father. Angels came to receive the King of glory and to escort Him triumphantly to heaven. After Jesus had blessed His disciples, He was parted from them and taken up. And as He led the way upward, the multitude of captives who were raised at His resurrection followed." EW 190

"Therefore it is said, 'When He ascended on high He led a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men.'" Ephesians 4:8 (RSV)

And EGW does indeed put the existence of the 144,000 in the future:

"It is not His will that they shall get into controversy over questions which will not help them spiritually, such as, Who is to compose the hundred and forty-four thousand. This those who are the elect of God will in a short time know without question." 1SM 174

hello all,

here are some statements from the Pen.

1, she saw them in number.
2, they are brought to view during Jacobs Trouble
3, they were separated from the great multitude, of the living
4, the great multitude and the 144,000 go through the time of Trouble such as there never was, also called the great tribulation.
5, they were singled out because they had a special wonderful truth to present.
6, In zechariah 3:8, Christ is called the Branch while in Isaiah 4:2 they are called the branch.
7, They are sealed during the time the church is at its lowest ebb, or the fartherest away from God.

The living saints, 144,000 in number,……….. The 144,000 were all sealed and perfectly united. On their foreheads was written, God, New Jerusalem, and a glorious star containing Jesus' new name. At our happy, holy state the wicked were enraged, and would rush violently up to lay hands on us to thrust us into prison, when we would stretch forth the hand in the name of the Lord, and they would fall helpless to the ground. Then it was that the synagogue of Satan knew that God had loved us who could wash one another's feet and salute the brethren with a holy kiss, and they worshiped at our feet. {EW 15.1}

Upon the crystal sea before the throne, that sea of glass as it were mingled with fire,--so resplendent is it with the glory of God,--are gathered the company that have "gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name." With the Lamb upon Mount Zion, "having the harps of God," they stand, the hundred and forty and four thousand that were redeemed from among men; and there is heard, as the sound of many waters, and as the sound of a great thunder, "the voice of harpers harping with their harps." And they sing "a new
649
song" before the throne, a song which no man can learn save the hundred and forty and four thousand. It is the song of Moses and the Lamb--a song of deliverance. None but the hundred and forty-four thousand can learn that song; for it is the song of their experience--an experience such as no other company have ever had. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth." These, having been translated from the earth, from among the living, are counted as "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb." Revelation 15:2, 3; 14:1-5. "These are they which came out of great tribulation;" they have passed through the time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation; they have endured the anguish of the time of Jacob's trouble; they have stood without an intercessor through the final outpouring of God's judgments. But they have been delivered, for they have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." "In their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault" before God. "Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." They have seen the earth wasted with famine and pestilence, the sun having power to scorch men with great heat, and they themselves have endured suffering, hunger, and thirst. But "they shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." Revelation 7:14-17. {GC 648.3}

(Vs. 9-12; see EGW on ch. 16:13-16.) The Signet of Heaven.--John saw a Lamb on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 having His Father's name written in their foreheads. They bore the signet of heaven. They reflected the image of God. They were full of the light and the glory of the Holy One. If we would have the image and superscription of God upon us, we must separate ourselves from all iniquity. We must forsake every evil way, and then we must trust our cases in the hands of Christ. While we are working out our own salvation with fear and trembling, God will work in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure (RH March 19, 1889). {7BC 978.1}
Christ Formed Within.--[Rev. 14:1-3 quoted.] Why were they so specially singled out? Because they had to stand with a wonderful truth right before the whole world, and receive their opposition, and while receiving this opposition they were to remember that they were sons and daughters of God, that they must have Christ formed within them the hope of glory (MS 13, 1888). {7BC 978.2}
While Satan has been urging his accusations, holy angels, unseen, have been passing to and fro, placing upon the faithful ones the seal of the living God. These are they that stand upon Mount Zion with the Lamb, having the Father's name written in their foreheads. They sing the new song before the throne, that song which no man can learn save the hundred and forty and four thousand which were redeemed from the earth. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." Revelation 14:4, 5.
592
{PK 591.2}
Now is reached the complete fulfillment of the words of the Angel: "Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth My Servant the Branch." Zechariah 3:8. Christ is revealed as the Redeemer and Deliverer of His people. Now indeed are the remnant "men wondered at," as the tears and humiliation of their pilgrimage give place to joy and honor in the presence of God and the Lamb. "In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even everyone that is written among the living in Jerusalem." Isaiah 4:2, 3. {PK 592.1}

The true people of God, who have the spirit of the work of the Lord and the salvation of souls at heart, will ever view sin in its real, sinful character. They will always be on the side of faithful and plain dealing with sins which easily beset the people of God. Especially in the closing work for the church, in the sealing time of the one hundred and forty-four thousand who are to stand without fault before the throne of God, will they feel most deeply the wrongs of God's professed people. {3T 266}


Whitlie

Regarding Ressurections, there are five mentioned in the Scriptures

1, Ezekial 37
2, Daniel 12:2
3, Matt. 27:52,
4, 1 Thess. 4:13-18.
5, Revelation 20:5m

Whitlie

I would say that there is enough evidence from the Bible alone to say that the 144,000 are not those who were resurrected with Christ at the time of His own resurrection.

I believe that the Bible provides us with ample evidence of the identity of the 144,000.

First of all they are called "The FirstFruits unto God and to the Lamb".

It would be very difficult for me to accept the belief that the group of people who were resurrected along with Jesus would have lived on this earth for a period of time and then died again. (The Scripture clearly states that all men are appointed to die once (Heb. 9:27)). This group of people ascended with Jesus to Heaven. Because of this it would qualify them as "FirstFruits"

Secondly, John sees 24 thrones surrounding the Throne of God in Heaven. Seated on these thrones are 24 elders who are identified as those "redeemed from amongst men"(Rev. 5:9. If the 144,000 are already in Heaven then would it not be a logical conclusion to state that there were 2 elders chosen from each of the 12 tribes that comprise this special group.

Thirdly, I can find no direct Biblical reference whereby the 144,000 are associated with those who have refused the "Mark of the Beast". Nor is there any direct reference made stating that this group endures the "great time of trouble" that is to come(Only the Great Multitude has this distinction).

Fourthly, this group of 144,000 are presented to John as already being in Heaven(Rev 14:1-5) prior to the proclamation of the Three Angel's Messages(Rev 14:6-11) and the Great Harvest(Rev 14:14-20).

To interpret that this group is representative of a group of individuals who will be present on this earth prior to the Second Coming is to make an assumption that the sequence in which this group is presented is not indicative of its actual chronological historical fulfillment. (There is a very clear danger in interpreting prophecy in this fashion.)

The presentation of prophetic events given to John in Revelation follow a very clear sequence/order. If the historical record of the last 2000 years is compared to this presentation a fairly clear picture can be seen as to how a large number of these prophetic events have been fulfilled already. And it can be also seen that that these historical events follow the same sequence as they were presented to John.

Bob D

What would be the purpose of 'sealing' sinless redeemed beings already in heaven? The controversy between the seal of God (sabbath) and the mark of the beast (Sunday) takes place here on earth, between opposite groups of mortal humans still subject to temptation, sin and death.

Also, 'firstfruits' doesn't necessarily indicate chronological time. Jesus is "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Cor. 15:20), but He wasn't the first to be resurrected from among humankind and taken to heaven. Moses preceded Him.

Bob, your ideas contradict the Spirit of Prophecy (Sister White). Please consider the following insights:

Revelation
7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

NOTE: chrononlogically the sealing of the 144,000 takes places between the 6th and 7th seals. In order for the saints who were resurrected with Jesus to be the 144,000 that would mean the 7 seals were fulfilled before Jesus' crucifixion. Please explain.

Revelation
9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

NOTE: again, the seal of God is associated with events happening during the 5th trumpet. Please explain how the trumpets were fulfilled before Jesus' death and resurrection.

Revelation
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Revelation
15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.

NOTE: by comparing the textual similarities above it is logical to conclude that the 144,000 are the only ones who can sing the song of Moses and the Lamb. The song of Moses symbolizes the passing through the plagues and the song of the Lamb symbolizes standing without fault before throne of God. Please explain.

GC 648.3
Upon the crystal sea before the throne, that sea of glass as it were mingled with fire,--so resplendent is it with the glory of God,--are gathered the company that have "gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name." With the Lamb upon Mount Zion, "having the harps of God," they stand, the hundred and forty and four thousand that were redeemed from among men; and there is heard, as the sound of many waters, and as the sound of a great thunder, "the voice of harpers harping with their harps." And they sing "a new song" before the throne, a song which no man can learn save the hundred and forty and four thousand. It is the song of Moses and the Lamb--a song of deliverance. None but the hundred and forty-four thousand can learn that song; for it is the song of their experience--an experience such as no other company have ever had. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth." These, having been translated from the earth, from among the living, are counted as "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb." Revelation 15:2, 3; 14:1-5. "These are they which came out of great tribulation;" they have passed through the time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation; they have endured the anguish of the time of Jacob's trouble; they have stood without an intercessor through the final outpouring of God's judgments. But they have been delivered, for they have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." "In their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault" before God. "Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." They have seen the earth wasted with famine and pestilence, the sun having power to scorch men with great heat, and they themselves have endured suffering, hunger, and thirst. But "they shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." Revelation 7:14-17.

NOTE: please notice that Sister White applies Rev 7:14-17 to the 144,000 and not the Great Multitude. She also interprets scripture in the same way suggested above. Please explain.